MORE NATIONALISTIC PROPASGANDA -

[marcus]

Hi Lazar,I think "lies" is a bit strong - different interpretations based on the source material, maybe; but as we have *nothing* that can be construed as conclusive proof either way, to call either position "lies" is a bit harsh (and very un-historiographical).Anyway, apologies for my facetious comment, which obviously rankled - I am still in my relaxed, holiday mode...All the bestMarcus

[DIMITRIOSPOLIORKETES]

To claim FYROM people are Macedonians is lie.FYROM occupies only 15% of the old MACEDONIAN STATE.Even your leaders admitt you have nothing to do with the ancient MACEDONIANS.The Capitals of ancient Macedonia are in Greece so is the majority of the old Macedonian state.13. "We are not related to the northern Greeks who produced leaders like Philip and Alexander the Great. We are a Slav people and our language is closely related to Bulgarian."
"There is some confusion about the identity of the people of this country."[FYROM's Ambassador to Canada, Gyordan Veselinov in an interview with the Ottawa Citizen, 24 February 1999]
14. "We are Slavs who came to this area in the sixth century... we are not descendants of the ancient Macedonians."
[FYROM'S President Mr. Kiro Gligorov, Foreign Information Service Daily Report, Eastern Europe, February 26, 1992, p. 35.]15. "We are Macedonians but we are Slav Macedonians. That's who we are! We have no connection to Alexander the Greek and his Macedonia. The ancient Macedonians no longer exist, they had disappeared from history long time ago. Our ancestors came here in the 5th and 6th century (AD)."
[FYROM'S President Mr. Kiro Gligorov, Toronto Star newspaper, March 15, 1992]

[Dimitrios Poliorketes]

Marcus, please note that my responses are directed at Lazar using nationalistic propaganda sites by FYROM on this board.I agree with the boards position on the Greek-FYROM debate however when Lazar continiously posts nationalistic propaganda I have have an obligation to respond as a Macedonian.

[DimitriosPoliorketes]

Proof you have never read WILKEN's book.While it is true Wilken stated that Macedonians had different political institutions then Southern Greeks since the Macedonians held on to OLD HOMERIC INSTITUTIONS once COMMON in all Greek states.It seems more and more certain that the Macedonians were a Greek tribe related to the Dorians. However, as they stayed high up in the distant north, they could not participate in the progress of civilization of the Greek people that migrated southward...". Ul. Wilcken, Alexandre le Grand, op. cit., p. 33:"And yet when we take into account the political conditions, religion and morals of the Macedonians, our conviction is strengthened that they were a Greek race akin to the Dorians." Ulrich Wilcken, "Alexander the Great", Norton publications, 1967. WILKEN's position is very clear I could go on continuing to quote from his book however I suggest you invest $15 and read it.

[DimitriosPoliorKetes]

That the Macedonians were of Greek stock seems certain. The claim made by the Argead dynasty to be of Argive descent may be no more than a generally accepted myth, but Macedonian proper names, such as Ptolemaios or Philippos, are good Greek names, and the names of the Macedonian months, although differed from those of Athens or Sparta, were also Greek. The language spoken by the Macedonians, which Greeks of the classical period found intelligible, appears to have been a primitive north-west Greek dialect, much influenced by the languages of the neighboring barbarians." J.R. Hamilton, "Alexander the Great", London, 1973 Learn to comprehend.While Hamilton states that Macedonians used Pan Hellanism to appease the Greek Allies from the city states his quote -"That the Macedonians were of Greek stock seems certain" is definitive of his position .

[DimitriosPoliorketes]

"Badian quotes a surviving papyrus fragment that seems to be the only good source to reveal the facts of the infantry use of MacedonianThe Macedonian State (page 13, note 29). Hammond states that most recently E. Badian in Barr-Sharrar (pp 33-51) disregarded the evidence as explained in A History of Macedonia (NGL Hammond and G. T. Griffith, 1979 pp 39-54). In Barr-Sharrar, Badian holds the view that the Macedonians (whom he does not define) spoke a language other than Greek. Badian keeps ignoring evidence that is against his beliefs and convictions choosing only certain proof and ignoring other relevant proof. That is exactly the pattern others, like E. Borza, , etc. have chosen to follow.

[amyntoros]

Some of Alexander's Companions were definitely interested in athletics, and I suspect might have competed in the games that Alexander held throughout the campaigns. There is a chapter in The World of Philip and Alexander, A Symposium on Greek Life and Times which is entitled Philip of Macedon, Alexander the Great, and the Ancient Olympic Games (by David Gilman Romano). The part that fascinates me the most is a quote from Athenaeus:"Perdiccas and Kraterus, who were lovers of gymnastic activities, always had in their train piles of goat skins as big as a stadion, under cover of which, after appropriating a place in the encampments, they would carry on their training; they were also followed by a long train of animals carrying sand to used in the palaistra. (Athenaeus 12.539)"Apart from anything else, the above makes me realize that the train following Alexander must have been absolutely enormous - it must have looked like a city on the move!Linda Ann

[marcus]

Hi Dimitrios,Did you use the word "lies" as well? I was responding to Lazar's use of the word, but if you used it, too, then I suppose I must direct that at you, too :-)Don't worry, I can see exactly where you are coming from... I just have a big problem with the use of such a word in this sort of debate. Still, it's hardly a debate, just arguing to and fro!I think I'll just keep well out of it! All the bestMarcus