Olympias' story

[Polyxena]

Hi there,We've talked a lot about Alexander's divinity - it's more than clear that he felt that he was a god. But, do you really believe that Olympias said she was impregnated by a serpent, which is closely identified with the god Ammon? This is in some connection with later Alexander's life, after he conquered Egypt.... and his visit to the Temple of Ammon in Siwah.I wonder if this really happened? And if this is really true (according some ancient sources) than, what kind of person was Olympias? Or maybe this is some immagination of Alexander trying to create a parallel to the life of his hero Hercules? Regards

[susan]

I think that Olympias was involved with a snake cult, but the association with Ammon would have come later, when Alexander reached Egypt.The stories about Alexander being fathered by a god may have started while Philip was alive, as part of the marital struggle between Philip & Olympias. Attalos' taunt about a legitimate heir could have referred to this - if Olympias was saying that Alexander was the son of a God then he couldn't also be the son of Philip. Whether she believed it or not is impossible to say.I think the stuff about Philip's dream, of sealing Olympias' womb, was a later invention though.Susan

[Polyxena]

Hi Susan,Thanks for your reply. I've posted this question because if Philip would have had any doubt in his fatherhood, than he wouldn't have invested so much in Alexander's education. On the contrary, Philip certainly seems to have believed that Alexander was his son and that's why he wanted nothing less than the best for him. But, although he was so proud of him (his son), Alexander was closer to Olympias and he never got along well with his father. But, that's another story.Also, we know how anxious mother she was regarding her son's succession: in ancient Macedonia mother's status depended on her son's and thus a mother became her son's advocate to his succession. Than, it's not reasonable why she would have "consiously" jeopardized her son's succession by telling this "story" about his conception. Regards

[Tre]

I would seriously question the comment "It is more than clear he thought he was a God."I tend to believe the story of Olympiada and the serpent et al derive from the PR wars between her and Cassander, although there does appear to be a question regarding his legitimacy during the wedding of Cleopatra. Plutarch does comment on how Alexander did not resemble his father (which was in fact, not the case), however this would have been the only way Attalus could have suggested removal of Alexander from first in line to the throne short of killing him as no one could quibble with how he conducted himself on the field of battle. Attalus was a powerful enenmy with strong connections to Parmenion and Philip, and having a son of Philip related to him would have cemented that relationship further. I find it unlikely the suggestion would have been his father was a God or Attalus would have been laughed out of the wedding feast and not taken seriously. The question is, who was the 'suggested' father, that's what interests me

[smittysmitty]

Hi all,the illegitamcy Attalus refers too, relates to all Philips prior wives not comming from Macedon proper, albeit the existance of a wife from Elimiotis., which then makes us wonder what the old kingdom thought of the cantonal Makedones!At least thats how I've always read it.just my thoughts.Cheers!.

[Tre]

But of course, Philip's own mother was not from Macedonia, and it was custom for King's to marry outside the realm, so it's not so easy to read the charge 'literally' as him not being full blooded Macedonian. As far as we know, there was no questioning of Alexander's worthiness as heir regarding his blood until the time of the marriage. In order for a potential son of Cleopatra to be in line for the throne, Attalus must cast doubt on the rightful heir. Olympiada's blood would not have concerned him at all, she was certainly royal enough in her bloodline (in fact Alexander was heir to the throne of Epirus as well, but in this case, Philip put his brother-in-law and former lover in the throne there for security purposes)because that would not disqualify Alexander from the Kingship. The implication is 'he is not Philip's son' as this would be the only thing that would make him not an heir.Regards,Tre

[marcus]

Completely agree with you, Tre.I've just started reading Peter Green's book on Alexander again, and he puts it extremely succinctly. The point is that the king's son didn't have to be 'legitimate' (ie. born in wedlock), but he did have to be the *king's* son!All the bestMarcus

[smittysmitty]

I still don't see how Attalus' comments go beyond what I've said?

[Polyxena]

Hi,I agree with Tre and Marcus that the question raised by Attalus during Cleopatra's wedding have connection with his doubts about who was Alexander's real father. Attalus "desired the Macedonians would impore the gods to give them a LAWFUL successor to the kingdom" (Plut.). The "lawful" successor means to be a king's son. That's why Alexander said: "You villain, what am I then a BASTARD?" So, the word "bastard" means a child which father is unknown. Well, I read somewhere about some ancient speculations about Alexander's real father... I'm going to consult my books about that. Regards

[Bill Giannakos]

I have to let you know that olympiada was member of orfika mistiria the most ancient theology in the world,she was a good mother and it is believed that this serpent you talk about was a king in Egypt with magical powers.

[Bill Giannakos]

Dear Poli the hero of Alexandros was Achilles not Hercules.

[marcus]

Hi Bill,Great to have you on the forum, by the way - welcome!I think Poliksena is aware of Alexander's emulation of Achilles. But she is right that Alexander also held Herakles in high esteem, because (as I'm sure you know) the Argeads claimed descent from Herakles - and, particularly from 331BC Alexander appears to have been as eager to emulate Herakles as he ever was Achilles. (Eg. according to Arrian, at least, he was as influenced to visit Siwa by Herakles' visit as for any other reason; and the siege of the Aornus rock in 327/6BC was undertaken in emulation of Herakles, who had significantly *failed* to take it.)All the bestMArcus

[Polyxena]

Dear Bill,He had 2 heroes.. yes, the main one was Achilles (we've talked about him before) but, the other one was Hercules. He wanted to rival him and that's why he made the coins where the face of Hercules bears a great resemblance to Alexander. He was demi-god, the son of Zeus. Creating a parallel to his life Alexander wanted to strengthen his claim to be divine.But, I would like to know who invented the story about Alexander's divine father, when it was invented and why. I found some info about this in the book "The history of Alexander" by Quintus Curtius Rufus. He said that the ancient Macedonians "knew" about Olimpiada's adultery and that "the story about the serpent" was her own invention (after Philip's death)in order to hide the "shame". There was another "ancient" story about her love-affair with Nektaneb after he was persecuted from Egypt. He came to Macedonia to look for Philip's help. While in Macedonia, he seduced Olympiada and that's how Alexander was born. She became suspicious to Philip and that was the reason why he divorced her (Attalus said the same during Cleopatra's wedding). But, Nektaneb escaped from Ox when Alexander had 16 years!!! So, according this fact, this story was invented, too. Do you know sth. more? And what do you want to refer to with the fact that Olympiada was a member of Orfika Mistria?
Regards,

[Bill Giannakos]

dear Quintus
you must also remember that Aiakos was his ancestor too from his mother side.Aiakos as it is written in plato's 'minos' was one of the three judges of Hades.Orfika mystiria were orpheu's rituals according to them a priestess like olympiada could be blessed from vakhus.so the whole thing about divivity is not just fiction.Orpheu's ritual's is the most mystical believe in the world

[smittysmitty]

Hi Poli, As basic as it seems, the implication of an affair relates to Olympias' openly advertised relationship with a higher being. Cassander may have used this later on in the P.R war that existed between the two but it was well established very early on, that she had some weird and wonderful ways about her; to put it politely. Her relationship with the Orphic religion, more likely than not, introduced her to a drug induced state that eventually would twist her mind; caught between reality and a mystical world.
After neary two decades of exposing herself to the frenzied state, the girl, unfortunately, lost the plot! Had Philip genuinely believed of an affair,(with a real person) I see no reason why he wouldn't simply dispose of her. Her religious beliefs were still an asset to Philip and could be of value to him amongst his subjects that also followed the cult. I'm not a firm believer in the point made by some sources that he divorced her, rather a demotion is more likey what took place.just my thoughts.Cheers!