A funny book thing...

[Nicator]

Hello All,
I've been researching heavily from many different books as of late in the almost vain attempt to finish my epoch poem on ATG. I needed a break from the whole thing for a bit, so I went to a movie and while waiting for the theatre to open I stopped in a second hand store. Eventually, I found some books and started digging around for somehting on ATG (automatically). Unfortunately, I found only some WWII books and this strange book on the origins of American Paleontology. For 50 cents a book, I figured I couldn't go wrong. AT home later I started reading the afforementioned book. It wasn't long before I came across a section on Aristotle and Alexander...it seems the Alexander book thing found me!
later Nicator

[chris]

HiAn interesting story. I experienced a very spooky co-incidence this week and it does make one wonder...Perhaps you should concentrate on lottery numbers & share the winnings with me. It was my idea..Regards,Chris

[marcus]

That's cool.Now, however, I'm afraid you have to explain where Alexander and Aristotle fit into a book on American Palaeontology...What's the betting that ATG will turn up in the WWII books, too?(I'm reading a book called "From the Holy Mountain" at the moment, which is a travel book following the journey of a 6th century Byzantine monk. He goes from Mount Athos to the Kirga Oasis, taking in loads of places in Turkey and the Levant. I suppose I was expecting quite a few references to ATG, but it's still nice to see them.)All the bestMarcus

[Nicator]

Hello Chris and Marcus,I gave up gambling with my day-trading business, so sorryGǪMarcus,
ItGÇÖs kind of complicated, and short of re-writing the entire section, IGÇÖll try to summarize. Beginning in the second chapter entitled GÇ£The HereticsGÇ¥ (you can probably see where this is going) The field of paleontology was struggling to get off the ground because of the prevailing religious doctrine of the 17th and 18th centuries. Aristotle lectured the young Alexander in 341-340 b.c. on the comparatively young age of mankind in reference to the great age of the world. GÇ£GǪAristotleGÇÖs pragmatic details about an Earth not only ancient beyond comprehension but in continuing changeGÇ¥. So the connection is made in relation to the actual age of the planet compared to the perceived age. As so often was the case, the ancient Greeks had it figured out and then the dark ages forgot about the discoveries only to be re-invented or re-discovered many centuries later. GÇ£GǪdiscussions of state religious and regional lore became a routine part of AlexanderGÇÖs epochal conquests from the Hellespont to India.GÇ¥ Alexander through his vast conquests was able to glimpse different cultures and their differing ideas as to the age of creation. The BrahmanGÇÖs being the most similar to Aristotle's statedGǪGÇ¥Earth and time, they claimed, were GÇ£infinite, and this tiny planet, which manGÇÖs slowly swelling brain had recently enabled him to dominate, was too ancient and complex for that brainGÇÖs comprehension.GÇ¥ On a different unrelated note...While I was re-reading the section on the King of Sweden in the book GÇ£The Thirty Years WarGÇ¥ by C.V. Wedgwood, I came across something you might be interested to read. Pgs. 329-30:
GǣGǪplague and famine wiped out whole villages, mad dogs attacked their masters, and the authorities posted men with guns to shoot down the raving victims before they could contaminate their fellows; hungry wolves abandoned the woods and mountains to roam through the deserted hamlets, devouring the dying and the dead.Gǥ
later Nicator

[marcus]

Thanks, Nick. That's very clear - although it of course is based on a very broad assumption about what Aristotle taught Alexander :-)I still think the poor wolves are greatly misunderstood creatures... All the bestMarcus

[Nicator]

Hello Marcus,"I still think the poor wolves are greatly misunderstood creatures..."I don't think they are misunderstood, only struggling with their vanishing habitat. We need wolves to balance our eco-system. If you remove all the natural predators then the herds of deer and other natural prey become sick. Wolves serve a natural purpose of thinning the herd, by eating the very old and young, and the sick.
later Nicator

[John.]

According to Plutarch, when Alexander was a boy, the priestess of Apollo told him that "a wolf would show him the way..."Or were you trying to get away from Alexander for a second? Sorry 'bout that.John

[Nicator]

Hi John,Great to hear from you! Apologies for the wolf diatribe, it's an old debate between Marcus and I. I'm not familiar with this Plutarch line, what is it in reference to? I did a bit of reading on Dionysus and came across some interesting info on his other reincarnations throughout Greece, Thrace, and Asia Minor. Dionysus took the form of Orpheus, and later in southern Greece of Apollo the sun god. Probably originating in Asia minor, crossing the Hellespont, and migrating down into Greece later on. Dionysus himself according to legend was buried at Delphi. Later Nicator

[John.]

Here's the passage from Plutarch explaining the "wolf prophesy.""Persia was difficult of access, owing to the roughness of the country, and was guarded by the noblest of the Persians (for Dareius had taken to flight); but Alexander found a guide to conduct him thither by a circuit of no great extent. The man spoke two languages, since his father was a Lycian and his mother a Persian; and it was he, they say, whom the Pythian priestess had in mind when she prophesied, Alexander being yet a boy, that a "lycus," or wolf, would be Alexander's guide on his march against the Persians."Let's see: the father of the guide that showed Alexander the way in Persia was a Lycian, and "lycus" means "wolf" in Greek. Therefore, a wolf showed Alexander the way? Is Plutarch getting overly abstract here, or what?John

[marcus]

Absolutely agree with you, Nick. Where they are misunderstood is the old business about them attacking people.I am a member of the UK Wolf Conservation Trust, which is breeding two packs of wolves on a farm in Berkshire. They have a pack of North American wolves, and one of European wolves. I'm hoping to arrange a time to go and 'walk' (rather than dance) with then in the next couple of weeks... beautiful creatures!All the bestMarcus

[John.]

I came across a couple coyotes while taking my dog for a walk the other day. (I had even been warned; don't let your dog stray too far; a dog was recently attacked and killed by coyotees.) They looked indestinguishable from dogs, except their tail, which almost made me laugh out loud. They were big animals - maybe bigger than my dog - with little feather-like tails! How can I have fear for something that funny!!Still, I kept a close watch on my dog.JohnP. S. Do I win the prize for finally jumping completely off-topic of Alexander? Don't tell me anyone can tie Alexander in with a coyote!

[John.]

Nope. I can't think of any coyotes associated with Alexander. There were "wolves" and foxes, though. And I thought of the gold digging ants that Alexander and his men encountered in India, which were as big as foxes.Most people think the gold digging ants were total fiction, but I think I figured it out: anteaters! They encountered anteatrs, which were digging for ants, not gold.What do you think?John

[susa]

Our anteaters here are 4 feet long. Bigger then India's - ha! Alexander would be really shocked with the Brazilian anteaters. Pity the winds didn't bring him hither, like they brought the Portuguese seaman who landed here some centuries ago.... :(On a second thought --- thanks he didn't come! Poor Brazilian Indians... They would end up wearing chitons and speaking a mix of Athic Greek with their native tongue. Eeekk!See, John, this is a nice way of going off topic but letting Alexander remain.

[John.]

Certainly the winds of the gods have blown us far off-topic. The title of the thread is "A funny book thing..." and here we are talking about anteaters in Brazil and India. Did you bring your compass?John

[Nicator]

...it is probably indicative of the comical measures the ancients used to interpret the soothsayers.