I have a little doubt on the AlexanderGÇÖs conquest of Egypt!
The historians I heard or read about his GÇ£anabasisGÇ¥ in that huge country, explain this exploit in a ambiguous way, not convincing (to me).
The Macedon was supported in water by a fleet of greek GÇ£trireisGÇ¥ and many other battle GÇ£craftsGÇ¥ that the new ruler of Europe strongly required of the people, poleis and federations of greeks to fight his promoted war against the persian tyranny on asia minor!
You bet that the greeks couldnGÇÖt stand the new face of macedon egemony (face of a king who razed Thebai to ground few years before; and the same whom they didnGÇÖt hesitate to rise against as he so became: the King).
After theese facts, I know by books that Alexander bended to south, towards Phoenikia and Egypt to avoid having a so dangerous ally set on fire at his shoulders. So he protected those wiping out all the reason for a fleet to land on the asian shores.
Yes, he couldnGÇÖt trust greeks, but neither conquer a so big country (not by blood, of course, but conquering anyway), just to stop a likely sea-attack from west in case of a rebellion in EuropeGǪseems rather excessive!
Waiting for your says.
ThanksAnd remember: Pou ine o Megalexandros? Zi kai Vassilevi!!!
Egypt quest: why exactly?
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Re: Egypt quest: why exactly?
Hi Franx,I have a different understanding of the matter. Here it is in brief:
Alex was named "commander in chief" of the Greek forces for the war against the Persians so he legitimately waged the war on behalf of everyone.
It took some "persuasion" of course to achieve that and Thebes was part of it. Taking into account that Thebes had many enemies in the Greek world not to mention that they were on the Persian side during the Persian wars not many wept for its destruction while many were afraid that could follow if they didn't behave. Antipater was in any case stationed in Macedonia with a considerable force.
Alex disbanded his fleet because (mostly) of the enormous cost that it represented and decided to neutralize the Persian one by taking its nautical bases. A plan that worked just fine if I might add.
Let's not forget that Memnon was actively supporting the idea of transferring the war in Europe and had the naval power to do so!regards,
Yiannis
PS
Zei!
Alex was named "commander in chief" of the Greek forces for the war against the Persians so he legitimately waged the war on behalf of everyone.
It took some "persuasion" of course to achieve that and Thebes was part of it. Taking into account that Thebes had many enemies in the Greek world not to mention that they were on the Persian side during the Persian wars not many wept for its destruction while many were afraid that could follow if they didn't behave. Antipater was in any case stationed in Macedonia with a considerable force.
Alex disbanded his fleet because (mostly) of the enormous cost that it represented and decided to neutralize the Persian one by taking its nautical bases. A plan that worked just fine if I might add.
Let's not forget that Memnon was actively supporting the idea of transferring the war in Europe and had the naval power to do so!regards,
Yiannis
PS
Zei!
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Re: Egypt quest: why exactly?
Ghi+á kai efcharist+¦ Yannis!
I agree with you about Thebes.
The greeks, of course, (moreover Athens and Sparta) didn't love so much the city that few years before, thanks to Pelopidas and Epaminonda, declared war against almost all the major european greek powers!
But nowdays, during Philip triumphant "katabasis" the real enemy wasn't a "run wild" polis and its imperalistic projects, but a barbarian country build as an obsolete Homer's kingdom, that was certaily more frightening than any other civilized cities in greece (Thebes, we can't forget, was the homeplace of Pindarus and had a privileged relationship with Athens after the war of Peloponnesus). at least, i think, that the conquest by Philip to the loss of greece was ideologgicaly intolerable as well as politically! No many wept for Thebes' razing, but, seeing such a great city destroyed by barbarians was the most scaring event after the persian war, the greek had seen...just because due to barbarians, in their view!
About the Egypt: Alexander after the victory at Issus, according to his propraganda (the liberation of greeks in Asia) should have strightly move against tha King of Persia and the capitol city of the empire! We know that, slowly, his war-program changed to something bigger: the birth of a new empire. So, after Issus, was Alexander already thinking about new conquest for a big Macedonian kingdom, got already over the base propaganda? or the campaign in there was due only to divensive reasons?Regards and chairete!Ah, zei is pronounced as zi? Is it right?
I agree with you about Thebes.
The greeks, of course, (moreover Athens and Sparta) didn't love so much the city that few years before, thanks to Pelopidas and Epaminonda, declared war against almost all the major european greek powers!
But nowdays, during Philip triumphant "katabasis" the real enemy wasn't a "run wild" polis and its imperalistic projects, but a barbarian country build as an obsolete Homer's kingdom, that was certaily more frightening than any other civilized cities in greece (Thebes, we can't forget, was the homeplace of Pindarus and had a privileged relationship with Athens after the war of Peloponnesus). at least, i think, that the conquest by Philip to the loss of greece was ideologgicaly intolerable as well as politically! No many wept for Thebes' razing, but, seeing such a great city destroyed by barbarians was the most scaring event after the persian war, the greek had seen...just because due to barbarians, in their view!
About the Egypt: Alexander after the victory at Issus, according to his propraganda (the liberation of greeks in Asia) should have strightly move against tha King of Persia and the capitol city of the empire! We know that, slowly, his war-program changed to something bigger: the birth of a new empire. So, after Issus, was Alexander already thinking about new conquest for a big Macedonian kingdom, got already over the base propaganda? or the campaign in there was due only to divensive reasons?Regards and chairete!Ah, zei is pronounced as zi? Is it right?
Re: Egypt quest: why exactly?
Geia sou Franx!
Yes Zei is pronounced as Zi...
I believe that the conquest of Egypt (and Tyre and Gaza and the rest naval bases) was for the reason I mentioned in my previous mail. To prodect his back against the dangerous Persian fleet that could transfer the war back in Europe.
I also believe that the Greeks regarded the Macs as "barbarians" mailny because of their political structure. I believe that they were of Greek stock in terms of religion and language (origin in general).Xaire!
Yiannis
Yes Zei is pronounced as Zi...
I believe that the conquest of Egypt (and Tyre and Gaza and the rest naval bases) was for the reason I mentioned in my previous mail. To prodect his back against the dangerous Persian fleet that could transfer the war back in Europe.
I also believe that the Greeks regarded the Macs as "barbarians" mailny because of their political structure. I believe that they were of Greek stock in terms of religion and language (origin in general).Xaire!
Yiannis
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Re: Egypt quest: why exactly?
Geia sou, Yannis!
I'll be quick (greigora?!?)
About the greek nationalism, i joined some class of greek history at university in Padova (Italy) where my teacher confirmed that the main...the chief reason for those people to claim themselves "Hellenoi" was, over than the language or the religion, the political structure they lived in! that is the "POLIS"!!!
The polis was the real badge for a civilized nation...in fact a greek intellectual, whose i don't remeber the name, reckoned Rome as a POLIS HELLENIS, becuase of his social and political set-up...different from Macedonian one!Thanks, Yannis...and,by the way, are you living in Greece?Xairete!
I'll be quick (greigora?!?)
About the greek nationalism, i joined some class of greek history at university in Padova (Italy) where my teacher confirmed that the main...the chief reason for those people to claim themselves "Hellenoi" was, over than the language or the religion, the political structure they lived in! that is the "POLIS"!!!
The polis was the real badge for a civilized nation...in fact a greek intellectual, whose i don't remeber the name, reckoned Rome as a POLIS HELLENIS, becuase of his social and political set-up...different from Macedonian one!Thanks, Yannis...and,by the way, are you living in Greece?Xairete!
Re: Egypt quest: why exactly?
Kalimera Franx,Yes, I live in Athens although I come from Samos.
You're right in the Polis thing. The ancient Greeks used to also say that "Greeks are those who share the same education as we do". Education in the broader sense. Or in Greek: "Hellenes einai oi tis imeteras paideias metechontes".
Actually the plural is Hellenes not Hellenoi.
Where do you live? I've been in Milan two months ago.Yiannis
You're right in the Polis thing. The ancient Greeks used to also say that "Greeks are those who share the same education as we do". Education in the broader sense. Or in Greek: "Hellenes einai oi tis imeteras paideias metechontes".
Actually the plural is Hellenes not Hellenoi.
Where do you live? I've been in Milan two months ago.Yiannis