The Mysteries in Samothrace.

[dean]

Hello,
I had never realised that Philip and Olympias met in Samothrace, a small island off the coast of Thrace on the old map. She apparently learned of the Dionysian orgiastic rites there.Olympias was serving there are as a hetaira. The word hetaira seems in itself to have less than respectable nuances unlike its masculine form,and what also seems to be less than understandable is why she was so far removed from Epirus her home. A more logical place would have been Dodona.Olympias from what I can gather was Philip's fourth wife after Fila, Audata, and Filina who gave birth to Arrideus, Philip's retarded son. I can't understand why she harboured so much hatred and spite towards Philip- the act of placing a wreath on the dead body of her husband's killer seems incomprehensible.I have even read the suggestion that Philip may have married Cleopatra to Alexandros because he feared Olympias poisoning her brother's mind against him and thus losing a valuable ally. Epirus had a considerable army.Also another thing I can't quite understand is why she killed Cleopatra- Attalo's niece and her daughter- I mean what possible threat could a they have posed to Alexander's position.It seems Olympias lived to quite an age and ironically died at the hands of the families of her victims thanks to Kassandros- Antipater's son.
To me Olympias is a fascinating character and I'd love to hear your opinion about her.
Best wishes,
Dean.

[marcus]

Hi Dean,My biggest problem with the whole Olympias thing is that I don't know enough about her to know where the fact ends and the fiction begins.For a start, yes, she and Philip appear to have met on Samothrace, but I don't know how much real information we have about it - was she really serving as a hetaira, or is that later legend to add some spice to the story?Similarly, I for one very much doubt that she placed a wreath on Pausanias' grave - that would have been just too obvious and too disrespectful towards Philip. They might have had marital difficulties, but that would have been going too far.As for the killing of Kleopatra and the baby - well, she had obviously been very put out by Philip's marrying Kleopatra, for whatever reason, and she obviously felt very threatened by the girl and her baby, in a way that she clearly never did by any of Philip's other wives and children.As for Philip marrying his daughter to Olympias' brother, I'd say you are completely right - if Olympias was stirring up trouble then Philip needed another way to bind Epirus to him.All the bestMarcus

[susa]

Olympias? That lady who's fond of poisoning everything that could possibly move? Fascinating character?! I think she was so into protecting her son's interests that she might have poisoned *the* very son if he ever showed any sign of willful oversight for getting that throne. Well, the interest seems to had been all hers...

[marcus]

I think you are doing her a great injustice, Susa. Olympias was everyone's favourite granny/aunt, and I am sure she was completely misunderstood.Ok, I'll shut up...Marcus

[susa]

Oh. Sorry Marcus. I'm in a bad mood.Yes: aunty/granny was very docile and cordial. Like her son.
susa

[ruthaki]

I've done a great deal of research on Olympias (whos real name was Myrtale. She renamed herself Olympias after her marriage to Philip, a most highly prestigious name taken by only 5 other women of antiquity. Derived from Olympos, the holy mountain. Her father was Neoptolemos, kind ofEpirus. Her ancestry went back to Achilles. She was a young girl when she met Philip at Samothraki which was an important sanctuary and supported by the Macedonian royalty. She was involved in cult things from an early age, including the cult of Zeus Ammon at Dodoni where she lived as a girl and later when in exile from Macedonia after her quarrels with Antipater during Alex. campaigns.
If you've never visited Samothraki, the Sanctuary of the Great Gods, I highly recommend it. (I've also done a lot of research on it for my novel "Shadow of the Lion" and have visited there twice)The final battle for the throne in Macedonia was between Olympias and Eurydike (Alexander's neice and wife of Philip Arridaios) which resulted in tragedy for both. Olympias died at Pynda, stoned to death by the family members of 'victims' she had killed. She was about 60 yrs old, still a potent force, strong, indomitable and always a great beauty.

[dean]

Hello,Thanks Marcus,Susa and Ruth for your feedback.I have read in several texts that Olympias' act of placing the wreath on the body of Pausinias but yes it does seem an incredibly bold act although I understand that her state of mind was less than rational at this point.Olympias feared that Philip was going to make sure that Alexander never became king so yes she had ample reason to see him dead.I have read that Philip's remains were burnt on the same funeral pyre as his killer's and then the ashes placed in the same tomb.Olympias apparently kept the Celtic knife and consecrated it to Apollo later celebrating rituals on the same day of Philip's death, which to many gave away her part in his murder. We will never know but I must admit that even for Olympias; to have arranged her husband's murder during her own daughter's wedding to her own brother does seem macabre to say the least.As we have mentioned she lived to a noble age before she was killed and as Renault has mentioned must have been of considerable beauty due to Alexander's inherited good looks and also due to the anecdote I found in "Nature of Alex"- some of Kassandros' soldiers were sent to kill her and apparently after the soldiers entered her palace, they took one look at her, saw her beauty and left.Best wishes,
Dean.

[ruthaki]

There isn't any actual 'proof' that Olympias had Philip assassinated. There was more likely Persian and Athenian money and plotting behind it, although she had her reasons. They had a notable love-hate relationship and she was disturbed by his recent marriage to a younger Macedonian girl. As to the story of why the soldiers who were sent after her by Kassandros backed off, it wasn't her 'beauty' but her power in that she was highly into cult things and knew strong 'magic' and people were frightened of this power as well as her strong character. There was a lot of superstition in those days about cults etc. And Olympias was a very vengeful person. Remember, if you didn't get them they'd get you so enemies were swiftly dealt with.This was not a woman who sat around weaving and doing women's work. She was from the mountains and if you ever visited Dodoni and saw the terrain, and how they used to travel back and forth by horseback, you would understand how tough a woman she must have been as well as her determination that nobody but her son would inherit the throne.There is a story about her childhood, that she was upset with her mother (who died when she was young) because her mother had not dipped her in the Acheron (symbolic of the Styx) as Achilles' mother had done. So she dipped herself in it. She was probably one of the most interesting characters of ancient history yet she has been painted as quite a vicious woman by most historians.

[dean]

Hello Ruth,
I agree completely with you.
I think that Sigmund Freud would have a hard time breaking down her psyche to analyse her- she was a complex,plotting,calculating and of course merciless enemy.As you say she was a very active lady and I understand that she rode horseback to Epirus, to the shelter of her brother's kingdom after the Attalus incident.
I also think that it is partly due to her influence that Alexander was so obsessed with the Iliad.She must have told him many times about his notorious ancestor.The connection between Alex and Achilles has always fascinated me.It must have been extremely inspiring for him to read Homer's epic while knowing deep down inside that his Greatgreat grandfather was the hero!
Life is stranger than fiction- Alexander's grief for Hephaestion was certainly mirrored by Achilles for Patroklos(or vice versa).It is almost eerie when you consider that Alexander died three months after his best friend and in the greatest of Achillean traditions traded in a long obscure life for a short but glorious one.
Best regards,Dean.

[ruthaki]

If you've ever visited the terrain where these women lived and grew up you'd see how it must have shaped their lives. Dodoni, where Olympias spent most of her childhood, is in the mountains and it would have been very wild country then. Roxane was from the Hindu Kush (take a look at northern Afghanistan and you'll get an idea of the land), Eurydike spent a lot of time in the wilds of Illyria. They were very tough women.

[marcus]

That's all right, Susa. I was being massively facetious!:-)Marcus

[susa]

Aaww, me too.
Hey, Marcus, what's yr soccer team? Do you know that there's a Brazilian soccer player in England, somewhere? I believe he's hired to stir up the mood over there....
susa

[marcus]

Hi Susa,I'm afraid to say that I don't really follow football (except at World Cup time, when I enjoy watching England get trounced by almost anyone else in the world, particularly you South Americans, of course).Anyway, if I were to reveal the team that I come closest to supporting, I would be laying myself open to all sorts of abuse and ridicule...But, hey, we import Brazilian players, and export our own to Mongolia... that says something about the state of football in the UK.And let's not get into which team Alexander would have supported... he would have set up his own XI, anyway.All the bestMarcus

[susa]

No, i don't think Alexander would like to watch football. It looks like he'd prefer a horse race, no? Were there horse races by that time?I like to watch the World Cup too. And from the Brit team i like Owen, used to like Beckham [he's wow], but since i saw him with his nails painted pink, i am not so sure....:)ips: Mongolia, yes? Oh.....

[D.HATGISTAVROU]

To really understand what type of woman Olympias was you just have to listen to Alexander himself when he said "MY MOTHER CHARGED ME A HIGH RENT FOR NINE MONTHS LODGING IN HER WOMB".