A masterpiece. A very boring epigraphy. A 2nd Naval Empire.
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- Hetairos (companion)
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A masterpiece. A very boring epigraphy. A 2nd Naval Empire.
In 1882 a inscribed stele was found in Piraeus on which the instructions for the construction of a stone storage facility on the port of Piraeus are inscribed. The facility was to house the hanged attachments of the ships of Athens; in essence for the creation of the great fleet of Athens and its 2nd Empire- what Philip was afraid of. The storage was built in 347, when Alexander was nine years old. Philon from Eleusis was to built it. Many historians and geographists - Pliny, Vitruvios, Plutarch and Valerios Maximus- classified it among the greatest buildings of the classical era, right next to the Acropolis' temples. The 134 attachments are equal to the battleships built in Athens duriong the 357- 325 BC period. The bilding was 18meters/131meters and it was near of course the docking yards.
We may have had the stele but nothin of the building. In 1988 however part of a building was discovered in Peireus, matching the exact sizes and architecture style described on the stele. Thus it was identified with the famous storage facility of Philon.
Here's the link with the photos
http://s1246.beta.photobucket.com/user/ ... ttachments?
The stele itself is the first photo. The second one is the real deal, the dockyards of Piraeus when found. This photo is from 1900. Notice the ramps on which the ships were dragged in.
Then you have the ancient text and 2 represantations of the building and one photo of the remaining part of the building today. The photos of the representations come from the book Pausanias, Εκδοτική Αθηνών.
As far as the translation of the stele text goes, it is 95 verses of which my son has managed to transalte a few more than 25 because I almost lost him to sheer boredom. When I convince him to resume the rest of it I will also send it as a reply to this thread!
Here it is
Gods.
This is the writing of the terms of the construction of the stone storage facility intended to house the ships’ hanging attachments, proposed by Euthodomos son of Demitrios from Meliti and Filonas son of Existekidos from Eleusis. A storage facility will be built to house the hanging attachments of the ships in Zea, which will start from the entrance that leads from the market as one would arrive from the back of the dockyards which are housed all in the same place, four plethra in length and fifty-five feet wide, including the walls. After the area is dug three feet deep from the highest level (of that space) and after the area is cleared of leftovers, foundations will be placed on the solid ground which will be evenly constructed on a homogenously flat surface, always according to the plump- line.
Foundations for the columns will also be placed, each having a fifteen feet distance from each wall including the diameter of the column, the total number of the columns being thrity- five and also leaving a way through in the center of the storage facility for people, twenty feet wide. The width of the foundations will be four feet while the stones will be placed wide-wise and length-wise in turns. The walls of the storage facility will be constructed and the columns will be built with stone from Piraeus while placing an alignment for the walls which will be made from stones three feet wide, three half-feet in height and four feet long, while the stones of the alignment which will be placed in the corners will be four feet and three palms long. And on the middle of the alignment, four feet long, five half-feet and one finger in width and three feet high stanchions will be placed, but the corner stanchions’ length will be proportionate to those of the trigliphs, leaving openings for the doors along the width of the storage facility, two per end and nine feet wide. And a small wall will be built on both sides between the doors which will be two feet wide and on the inside ten feet deep. And the wall to which each door will open to, (the door) will make a right angle turn until it reaches the first columns. On the door stanchion walls will be placed made from stones four feet long, five half- feet wide mad three haff-feet high (on the corners however they shoud have length proportionate to the one of the triglifs).
We may have had the stele but nothin of the building. In 1988 however part of a building was discovered in Peireus, matching the exact sizes and architecture style described on the stele. Thus it was identified with the famous storage facility of Philon.
Here's the link with the photos
http://s1246.beta.photobucket.com/user/ ... ttachments?
The stele itself is the first photo. The second one is the real deal, the dockyards of Piraeus when found. This photo is from 1900. Notice the ramps on which the ships were dragged in.
Then you have the ancient text and 2 represantations of the building and one photo of the remaining part of the building today. The photos of the representations come from the book Pausanias, Εκδοτική Αθηνών.
As far as the translation of the stele text goes, it is 95 verses of which my son has managed to transalte a few more than 25 because I almost lost him to sheer boredom. When I convince him to resume the rest of it I will also send it as a reply to this thread!
Here it is
Gods.
This is the writing of the terms of the construction of the stone storage facility intended to house the ships’ hanging attachments, proposed by Euthodomos son of Demitrios from Meliti and Filonas son of Existekidos from Eleusis. A storage facility will be built to house the hanging attachments of the ships in Zea, which will start from the entrance that leads from the market as one would arrive from the back of the dockyards which are housed all in the same place, four plethra in length and fifty-five feet wide, including the walls. After the area is dug three feet deep from the highest level (of that space) and after the area is cleared of leftovers, foundations will be placed on the solid ground which will be evenly constructed on a homogenously flat surface, always according to the plump- line.
Foundations for the columns will also be placed, each having a fifteen feet distance from each wall including the diameter of the column, the total number of the columns being thrity- five and also leaving a way through in the center of the storage facility for people, twenty feet wide. The width of the foundations will be four feet while the stones will be placed wide-wise and length-wise in turns. The walls of the storage facility will be constructed and the columns will be built with stone from Piraeus while placing an alignment for the walls which will be made from stones three feet wide, three half-feet in height and four feet long, while the stones of the alignment which will be placed in the corners will be four feet and three palms long. And on the middle of the alignment, four feet long, five half-feet and one finger in width and three feet high stanchions will be placed, but the corner stanchions’ length will be proportionate to those of the trigliphs, leaving openings for the doors along the width of the storage facility, two per end and nine feet wide. And a small wall will be built on both sides between the doors which will be two feet wide and on the inside ten feet deep. And the wall to which each door will open to, (the door) will make a right angle turn until it reaches the first columns. On the door stanchion walls will be placed made from stones four feet long, five half- feet wide mad three haff-feet high (on the corners however they shoud have length proportionate to the one of the triglifs).
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Re: A masterpiece. A very boring epigraphy. A 2nd Naval Empi
I'm amazed at the almost particular care of details in this stele' s text: it seems to me the ancient Athenians were really strict in lay down the law of building the hanging attachment of their ships. It's well known geometry and mathematics were in high esteem in philosopher's consideration, but this stele surpasses all known examples among common people (shipowners, but also fishermen, I think).
The first thing I admire is the stoichedon precision of the letters, then the abundance of measures along the whole text.
Thank you for posting it (but I beg you to have pity of your own son, poor boy, I think it's boring for HIM to translate, not for us to read this very interesting text!).
The first thing I admire is the stoichedon precision of the letters, then the abundance of measures along the whole text.
Thank you for posting it (but I beg you to have pity of your own son, poor boy, I think it's boring for HIM to translate, not for us to read this very interesting text!).
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- Hetairos (companion)
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Re: A masterpiece. A very boring epigraphy. A 2nd Naval Empi
hiphys wrote:I'm amazed at the almost particular care of details in this stele' s text: it seems to me the ancient Athenians were really strict in lay down the law of building the hanging attachment of their ships. It's well known geometry and mathematics were in high esteem in philosopher's consideration, but this stele surpasses all known examples among common people (shipowners, but also fishermen, I think).
The first thing I admire is the stoichedon precision of the letters, then the abundance of measures along the whole text.
Thank you for posting it (but I beg you to have pity of your own son, poor boy, I think it's boring for HIM to translate, not for us to read this very interesting text!).
The stoichedon writting style was one of the most harmonious, and to be frank all the styles of that time were generally harmonious. The real masterpiece to which I was refering to, was the building itself which the ancient writers held in great value.
As far as my "poor boy" goes I think he found wealth in his refusal, in the form of a one man blockade against the work itself. He is in love and bored out of his mind when it comes to translating.
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Re: A masterpiece. A very boring epigraphy. A 2nd Naval Empi
By Alexander's day, the Athenian dockyards were vast and well developed. Firstly there were the ship-sheds themselves, to house the triremes. In330 BC, they numbered 372, mostly at Zea (196), Munichia(82) and Kantharos(94). The whole Piraeus ( docks area) was over 60 stades/12,000yds or metres aprox in circumference, enclosing a huge area. The ship-sheds were built in pairs and were essentially slipways, with a roof built on columns.
Earlier, the ships gear was stored in adjacent wooden sheds[skeuotheke]. The building Pauline refers to was a large stone one built to replace these wooden buildings, vulnerable as they were to arson, filled with combustibles. The work was interrupted in 339/338 because of war with Philip, Alexander's father, and completed under Lycurgus the following year. It was called the 'Hanging gear store'[hoplotheke]. It is a very different type of building to the ship-sheds. It was indeed famous in its time and is referred to by the Greek geographer Stabo [IX.i.15]
The 'hanging gear' consisted of pretty much everything except the hulls themselves - the swifters,large ropes that acted like a bowstring to keep the hull taut (hypozomata), linen sails, various other ropes and rigging, iron anchors and anchor cables, as well as 'mooring cables' used to haul the vessel stern first up a beach, protective hanging screens to protect the rowers from missiles , made of hide or leather(parablemata ) , pitch to waterproof all the ropes etc etc
Earlier, the ships gear was stored in adjacent wooden sheds[skeuotheke]. The building Pauline refers to was a large stone one built to replace these wooden buildings, vulnerable as they were to arson, filled with combustibles. The work was interrupted in 339/338 because of war with Philip, Alexander's father, and completed under Lycurgus the following year. It was called the 'Hanging gear store'[hoplotheke]. It is a very different type of building to the ship-sheds. It was indeed famous in its time and is referred to by the Greek geographer Stabo [IX.i.15]
The 'hanging gear' consisted of pretty much everything except the hulls themselves - the swifters,large ropes that acted like a bowstring to keep the hull taut (hypozomata), linen sails, various other ropes and rigging, iron anchors and anchor cables, as well as 'mooring cables' used to haul the vessel stern first up a beach, protective hanging screens to protect the rowers from missiles , made of hide or leather(parablemata ) , pitch to waterproof all the ropes etc etc
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- Hetairos (companion)
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Re: A masterpiece. A very boring epigraphy. A 2nd Naval Empi
Xenophon wrote:By Alexander's day, the Athenian dockyards were vast and well developed. Firstly there were the ship-sheds themselves, to house the triremes. In330 BC, they numbered 372, mostly at Zea (196), Munichia(82) and Kantharos(94). The whole Piraeus ( docks area) was over 60 stades/12,000yds or metres aprox in circumference, enclosing a huge area. The ship-sheds were built in pairs and were essentially slipways, with a roof built on columns.
Earlier, the ships gear was stored in adjacent wooden sheds[skeuotheke]. The building Pauline refers to was a large stone one built to replace these wooden buildings, vulnerable as they were to arson, filled with combustibles. The work was interrupted in 339/338 because of war with Philip, Alexander's father, and completed under Lycurgus the following year. It was called the 'Hanging gear store'[hoplotheke]. It is a very different type of building to the ship-sheds. It was indeed famous in its time and is referred to by the Greek geographer Stabo [IX.i.15]
The 'hanging gear' consisted of pretty much everything except the hulls themselves - the swifters,large ropes that acted like a bowstring to keep the hull taut (hypozomata), linen sails, various other ropes and rigging, iron anchors and anchor cables, as well as 'mooring cables' used to haul the vessel stern first up a beach, protective hanging screens to protect the rowers from missiles , made of hide or leather(parablemata ) , pitch to waterproof all the ropes etc etc
Thanks for adding the extra info, it would have been a challenge for my poor english knowledge. I really think however that the building name was σκευοθήκη (storage facility) and not οπλοθήκη (weapon storage facility) ; and, since we are talking about Piraeus, let me put down some Athenian ship names: Δανάη (Danae), Παγκράτεια (Allmighty) , Ευτυχής (Happy), Θρασεία (Audacious), Λόγχη (Spear), Στρατηγίς (Lady General), Σάλπιγξ (Trumpet).
I am sending to you a link with one 1900 photo showing part of the ancient wall of Ηετιώνεια peninsula where the war harbour was and is now demolished (5th BC)
http://s1246.photobucket.com/user/IamSy ... eus?page=1
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Re: A masterpiece. A very boring epigraphy. A 2nd Naval Empi
Another fine photo ! It gives one a sense of just how massive the fortifications of ancient Athens were. I would agree that the general name for such 'storage facilities' in ancient Greek times was 'skeuotheke' - for example a surviving list of 330/329 ( The ancient Athenian year began in midsummer) speaks of [wooden] 'skeuothekai' containing gear for 277 'triereis'. I mentioned the word 'hoplotheke' because that is the word Strabo uses in the passage I referred to [IX.1.15]. Perhaps he used this word to distinguish the vast stone building from the wooden sheds ?
And to add to the list of known ship names there are the famous 'state galleys/triereis' - "Paralus" and "Salamina".......
And to add to the list of known ship names there are the famous 'state galleys/triereis' - "Paralus" and "Salamina".......
Re: A masterpiece. A very boring epigraphy. A 2nd Naval Empi
My guess would be that Strabo uses 'hoplotheke' - Arsenal because the function of the building had changed, the Athens of his day was far from the naval power of the 4th century BC and so would not require a storage facility for so much naval gear so, sometime during her decline, the weapons of State maintained troops came to be stored there too and the name changed with the function.
When you think about, it free-choice is the only possible option.
Re: A masterpiece. A very boring epigraphy. A 2nd Naval Empi
A plausible possibility on the face of it, but a number of factors argue against. In the first place, whilst we hear of earlier 'donations' of public arms ( e.g. Pasion's donation of 1,000 shields in Demosthenes XLV.85, or Lykourgus storing 'a great quantity of arms' on the Acropolis - Lives of the ten orators 825 C ), it is not until the 3rd C BC that we see a significant decline in Athens' navy, and the public supply of arms to Ephebes etc , but the quantities concerned would hardly take up the majority of space in the "hoplotheke" to justify a change of name.
Secondly 'hopla/opla' doesn't only mean 'arms'. It originally meant 'equipment, tools, implements or 'gear' generally e.g. a blacksmith's tools/gear. Homer uses it in this way (e.g. Iliad XVIII.409;412) and in the sense of 'arms' i.e. tools/equipment of war too(Iliad XVIII.614 of Achilles weaponry ).
Significantly, he also uses it to specifically refer to ship's gear, ropes and halyards ( "ships hanging gear") several times (e.g. Odyssey II.340) and see also Herodotus VII.25 and IX.115 for similar generic references to ship's ropes etc.
Thus 'hoplotheke' is literally 'ship's hanging gear store'.
Secondly 'hopla/opla' doesn't only mean 'arms'. It originally meant 'equipment, tools, implements or 'gear' generally e.g. a blacksmith's tools/gear. Homer uses it in this way (e.g. Iliad XVIII.409;412) and in the sense of 'arms' i.e. tools/equipment of war too(Iliad XVIII.614 of Achilles weaponry ).
Significantly, he also uses it to specifically refer to ship's gear, ropes and halyards ( "ships hanging gear") several times (e.g. Odyssey II.340) and see also Herodotus VII.25 and IX.115 for similar generic references to ship's ropes etc.
Thus 'hoplotheke' is literally 'ship's hanging gear store'.
Re: A masterpiece. A very boring epigraphy. A 2nd Naval Empi
If you check the inscription, line four describes the items to be housed as 'skeusin' it would follow that the building had the same name as the sheds it replaced 'skeuetheke'. The name would only have changed with the function so as long as it is prior to the end of the 1st century BC, when Strabo describes it as 'hoplotheke' I see no problem; you would agree, I hope that the name would more likely stem from Hellenistic usage than Homeric. If Appolonios uses 'hopla' for hanging gear then I concede the point, 'tis but a notion.
When you think about, it free-choice is the only possible option.
Re: A masterpiece. A very boring epigraphy. A 2nd Naval Empi
Hhh...mm..mm. Not sure it necessarily follows that because the building contained 'skeua' = ship's tackle/ropes etc, that the building necessarily had to be named such. I think that as in English where we have several words to describe such a store e.g. armoury, arsenal, gun-room etc, the Greek was similar, especially as 'opla' could mean specifically' ship's tackle/ropes'. Herodotus uses 'opla' twice to describe the rope tackle used on Xerxes' bridge[ e.g VII.25], and Hippocrates uses it in the same way to refer to ship's tackle/ropes [Art 78], as does Hesiod in his 'Works and Days' [627]
However, use of 'oplotheke' is rare, and because 'opla' means both 'ship's tackle/equipment' and 'men-at-arms tackle/equipment' ( inter a generic 'equipment/tools/implements' meaning) we see it in both senses e.g D.S. XII.79 describes the informer on the pages plot being hidden in Alexander's personal armoury/oplotheke, while the King is approached. Josephus in his 'jewish war' can use the same word to describe a 'Royal Armoury' which is raided for weapons[JB II.4.1]
Here, it clearly means a weapons store.
Strabo uses it twice, [IX.1.15.] is the reference to the Athenian building under discussion, and he also uses it of a 'naval arsenal' at [IV.1.5] where it is associated with slipways and ship sheds, and he uses a different word 'oplophulakion' for a weapons store elsewhere. Strabo seems to be referring to a 'hanging gear shed'/naval arsenal in the two instances referred to.
Finally, Plutarch refers to 'oplotheke' when describing the destruction of the Athenian building during Sulla's sacking of Athens. For the reasons I set out earlier, I don't think the building became converted to an 'arms store' as such.
From Homeric times to Roman times the word seems to have a dual meaning, either 'weapons store' ( from 'opla' = weapons) or 'hanging gear store/naval arsenal' (from 'opla' = ships tackle/hanging gear ) and the reader would know which from the context, as in the examples above.
Which Appollonius are you referring to ?
However, use of 'oplotheke' is rare, and because 'opla' means both 'ship's tackle/equipment' and 'men-at-arms tackle/equipment' ( inter a generic 'equipment/tools/implements' meaning) we see it in both senses e.g D.S. XII.79 describes the informer on the pages plot being hidden in Alexander's personal armoury/oplotheke, while the King is approached. Josephus in his 'jewish war' can use the same word to describe a 'Royal Armoury' which is raided for weapons[JB II.4.1]
Here, it clearly means a weapons store.
Strabo uses it twice, [IX.1.15.] is the reference to the Athenian building under discussion, and he also uses it of a 'naval arsenal' at [IV.1.5] where it is associated with slipways and ship sheds, and he uses a different word 'oplophulakion' for a weapons store elsewhere. Strabo seems to be referring to a 'hanging gear shed'/naval arsenal in the two instances referred to.
Finally, Plutarch refers to 'oplotheke' when describing the destruction of the Athenian building during Sulla's sacking of Athens. For the reasons I set out earlier, I don't think the building became converted to an 'arms store' as such.
From Homeric times to Roman times the word seems to have a dual meaning, either 'weapons store' ( from 'opla' = weapons) or 'hanging gear store/naval arsenal' (from 'opla' = ships tackle/hanging gear ) and the reader would know which from the context, as in the examples above.
Which Appollonius are you referring to ?
Re: A masterpiece. A very boring epigraphy. A 2nd Naval Empi
Appolonios of Rhodes 'Argonautika', although in view of other discussions a poet is probably the wrong place to look
I did not wish to say that all stores for 'skeua' would be 'skeuathekai' only that this was the name of the buildings that the stone store replaced and that as the inscription describes the contents as 'skeua', rather than 'hopla' it would be resonable to infer that it retained the old name. However, in view of the above it would seem more likely that the name just changed over time without any change of function. Does Strabo ever use 'skeuatheke' ?
![Laughing :lol:](./images/smilies/icon_lol.gif)
I did not wish to say that all stores for 'skeua' would be 'skeuathekai' only that this was the name of the buildings that the stone store replaced and that as the inscription describes the contents as 'skeua', rather than 'hopla' it would be resonable to infer that it retained the old name. However, in view of the above it would seem more likely that the name just changed over time without any change of function. Does Strabo ever use 'skeuatheke' ?
When you think about, it free-choice is the only possible option.