Interesting Alexander mosaic

[marcus]

Dear all,

Last week I spent a few days in the Lebanon, as I think I bragged about before. Anyway, although I didn't get to Tyre, much to my chagrin, there was a very interesting mosaic in the National Museum in Beirut. It showed the birth of Alexander - dated 4th century AD, found at Baalbek.

If you go to my Facebook album you will see the entire mosaic (what's left of it) and some detail, at the bottom of Page 2 and start of Page 3.

What's interesting is that it appears to show Alexander being born out of a pot or a shell - difficult to tell which. I don't have my books to hand, so I wonder if there's something in the Alexander Romance about his birth that corresponds to this. Any ideas?

All the best

[sikander]

Greetings Marcus,

At this moment I do not recall the source, but seem to recall that there were some specific cleansing rituals at a persons birth, marriage and death that were connected to a small "tub" (for lack of a better word) ...
Does anyone else remember the source for this?

Regards,
Sikander

[athenas owl]

Greetings Marcus,

At this moment I do not recall the source, but seem to recall that there were some specific cleansing rituals at a persons birth, marriage and death that were connected to a small "tub" (for lack of a better word) ...
Does anyone else remember the source for this?

Regards,
Sikander

I don't know, though I think that is entirely probable. My first reaction was more mundane...washing the newborn baby as is done to this day.

[sikander]

Greetings Athenas Owl,

I tend to agree that there may be no more significance to the scene than an everyday event. After all, toilet rituals, parties, marriages, eating meals, simple everyday scenes, were all portrayed on plates, pots and plaques...and mosaics, which were often designed to decorate a room (often, mosaic scenes reflected the use of the room in which they were placed) or appeal to an important patron's ego <laughing>. Or perhaps, just as simple as an artist exploring a subject, much as artits event oday. Perhaps it is as simple as an artist trying to portray something as basic as the bathing of the newborn Alexander, for whatever reason the patron wished.. to decorate a bathing area? Celebrate the birth of a son?
Marcus, can you tell us a bit more about the mosaic and where it was originally placed?

Regards,
Sikander

[athenas owl]

Well said, sikander.

I am reminded of an archaeological site in eastern Oregon, the great basin region (my original work (I even got paid!) was concentrated on the archaeology of the Pacific Northwest). A fire had burned down a lodging and so items of the household were found in situ. The women and the men were seen to each have half of the house"..and on the women's side was found a miniature bow and arrow set (still in their small quiver)..including miniature arrowheads. Many trying to interpret the find ascribed some ritual aspect for this being found on the women's side. A wonderful professor I had, however, asked all the students about their childhood toys, including smaller versions of toy guns, swords, dolls, tools (my grandkid toddler has more than once nailed me with a small toy hammer she seems to favour, the little demon), etc...

The children, including small boys would have stayed with their mothers, but it didn't stop them from having the miniature versions of of the adult weapons...sometimes a bath is just a bath...

But I agree that context is helpful. I'd be curious to know where the mosaic came from in relation to the household.

Marcus, I forgot earlier to thank you for sharing those great photos.

[marcus]

Hi Sikander,

I tend to agree that there may be no more significance to the scene than an everyday event. After all, toilet rituals, parties, marriages, eating meals, simple everyday scenes, were all portrayed on plates, pots and plaques...and mosaics, which were often designed to decorate a room (often, mosaic scenes reflected the use of the room in which they were placed) or appeal to an important patron's ego <laughing>. Or perhaps, just as simple as an artist exploring a subject, much as artits event oday. Perhaps it is as simple as an artist trying to portray something as basic as the bathing of the newborn Alexander, for whatever reason the patron wished.. to decorate a bathing area? Celebrate the birth of a son?
Marcus, can you tell us a bit more about the mosaic and where it was originally placed?

Well, it was the fact that the woman bathing him is designated as a nymph that made me think it might be more than just that. But it may be that it is that mundane, and the nymph is there just to indicate his divine background.

Unfortunately, there was no further information about where exactly the mosaic was discovered - only what I've put on the photo description.

ATB

[sikander]

Greetings Marcus,

In the context of what a "nymph" was, the presence of one would be understandable. If the date is 4th century A.D., the "god-like" or "god status" of Alexander would already have been promoted. Nymphs were often associated with attending gods, thus it would make sense to show a nymph attending the birth and bathing Alexander- especially considering the nymphs association with rivers, streams and water. They were also associated with Dionysus, so there could have been a connection there, too.

Or again, it could simply have been an artistic whimsy <smiling>

Regards,
Sikander

[sikander]

[quote="athenas owl"]Well said, sikander...

The children, including small boys would have stayed with their mothers, but it didn't stop them from having the miniature versions of of the adult weapons...sometimes a bath is just a bath...

But I agree that context is helpful. I'd be curious to know where the mosaic came from in relation to the household."

Greetings Athenas Owl,

Thank you. Much as I would like to think otherwise, it usually turns out that what we discover is simply the every day lives of every day people... we are only a few thousand years removed from them, and thus, more similar than we might care to imagine... What we *hope* will be a unique, fascinating discovery to explode our understanding of the past, often turns out to be, as you say , more in line with "a bath is just a bath" <laughing>.. or even less exciting, simple common sense..

Regards,
Sikander

[athenas owl]

A bit unrelated, but maybe not.

http://www.boingboing.net/2007/11/18/an ... potty.html

For a larger image:

http://boingboing.net/images/Ancient-Gr ... -large.jpg

Maybe a potty chair, maybe a "high chair" (is there a different word outside of the U.S.?), maybe a place to stash the little darling so mother could catch a break...

I have much sympathy for ancient Greek mothers...this little artifact always reminds me that ancient Greece was much more than great minds and conquerors and in some ways not that different from us...and the image of little Alexander wiggling and whinging while confined to one always helps to put him in perspective.

[marcus]

In the context of what a "nymph" was, the presence of one would be understandable. If the date is 4th century A.D., the "god-like" or "god status" of Alexander would already have been promoted. Nymphs were often associated with attending gods, thus it would make sense to show a nymph attending the birth and bathing Alexander- especially considering the nymphs association with rivers, streams and water. They were also associated with Dionysus, so there could have been a connection there, too.

Indeed. So it might just be a nymph bathing him after his birth, signifying his god status, and not related to any particular story.

Or again, it could simply have been an artistic whimsy <smiling>

You are so right!

ATB

[marcus]

A bit unrelated, but maybe not.

http://www.boingboing.net/2007/11/18/an ... potty.html

For a larger image:

http://boingboing.net/images/Ancient-Gr ... -large.jpg

Maybe a potty chair, maybe a "high chair" (is there a different word outside of the U.S.?), maybe a place to stash the little darling so mother could catch a break...

I have much sympathy for ancient Greek mothers...this little artifact always reminds me that ancient Greece was much more than great minds and conquerors and in some ways not that different from us...and the image of little Alexander wiggling and whinging while confined to one always helps to put him in perspective.

I would say definitely not unrelated!

Great pic!

ATB

[Fiona]

Thank you, Marcus, for sharing your photos. What a great trip, Baalbek looks amazing. I hope you get to Tyre one day.
Fiona

[agesilaos]

It looks to me as if Nymphe is merely the name of his nurse, the Fourth Century was a Christian one for the most part so implied Pagan divinity would be a dangerous thing to have on your floor. By this time I think the addition of a nimbus or halo would be de riguer for anyone 'holy'. The identity of the other figures would be useful.

One possibility that occurs to me is that the Alexander depicted is not our man at all but the son of the household, in which case Nymphe would be his mother, the couple to the left her parents and the man above her, her husband.

[amyntoros]

It looks to me as if Nymphe is merely the name of his nurse, the Fourth Century was a Christian one for the most part so implied Pagan divinity would be a dangerous thing to have on your floor. By this time I think the addition of a nimbus or halo would be de riguer for anyone 'holy'. The identity of the other figures would be useful.

One possibility that occurs to me is that the Alexander depicted is not our man at all but the son of the household, in which case Nymphe would be his mother, the couple to the left her parents and the man above her, her husband.

I did a little research and it is definitely Alexander, although not necessarily with implied divinity. There's some historical background to be found in (strangely enough) a book called Silver and society in late antiquity: functions and meanings of silver plate by Ruth E. Leader-Newby. On pages 132-133 she says:

In iconographic terms, depictions of the birth of Achilles are a late antique phenomenon. It has been suggested that the form of the scene is derived from that of the birth of Dionysus, which although not especially common does occur periodically in the earlier Roman period. The main features which these depictions have in common are Semele/Thetis reclining on a couch, and female attendants waiting to bathe Dionysus/Achilles. A late antique example of the birth of Dionysus can be seen on the fitth-century ivory pyxis in the Museo Civico in Bologna. But recognizing the links between iconographies does not explain why a schema which had been used for Dionysus should be extended to represent Achilles, or why within the depiction of Achilles' birth there should be the variations found on the Sevso Achilles plate. Nor is it only Achilles whose birth is represented for the first time in late antiquity. A mosaic from Baalbek-Soueidie shows the newborn Alexander the Great being bathed in a circular fluted basin - like those on the Bologna pyxis and the Capitoline Puteal - by a female figure labelled 'Nymphe', while his mother Olympias reclines on a bed watched by an attendant. All the figures in the mosaic have name-labels, a common characteristic of mosaics of the Greek East of the third to fifth centuries. In this case the name-labels seem to serve an obvious and important purpose: how otherwise is the viewer to recognize the scene as the birth of Alexander rather than Achilles or Dionysus. At the same time the borrowing of the iconographic schema hints at analogies between Alexander, Achilles and Dionysus, analogies which were also suggested to the viewers visual memory of iconographic schemata, and his or her knowledge of the biography of Alexander the Great. The latter can convincingly be placed in the context of paideia, since the exercises of the progymnasmata required students to be familiar with a repertoire of characters, events and aphorisms from literature, history and myth, and Alexander and his life was certainly part of the canon of these.

Oh, and Marcus, there does seem to be some kind of connection with the Romance. In the book Studies in the Alexander Romance by D.J.A. Ross there's an article titled: Olympias and the Serpent: The Interpretation of a Baalbek Mosaic and the Date of the Illustrated Pseudo-Callisthenes. I'm guessing it's the same mosaic unless there's another one featuring Alexander!

Best regards,

[marcus]

It looks to me as if Nymphe is merely the name of his nurse, the Fourth Century was a Christian one for the most part so implied Pagan divinity would be a dangerous thing to have on your floor. By this time I think the addition of a nimbus or halo would be de riguer for anyone 'holy'. The identity of the other figures would be useful.

One possibility that occurs to me is that the Alexander depicted is not our man at all but the son of the household, in which case Nymphe would be his mother, the couple to the left her parents and the man above her, her husband.

The woman directly above the picture of Alexander and Nymphe is Olympias - you can see her name in the mosaic.

ATB