Arrian's Sources

[Cindoo15]

I have been reading Arrian for the first time and find it quite interesting. I do have a question about his sources though. I know he states that he relies mainly on Ptolemy and Aristobulus. However, I was just reading about Darius prior to Issus. Arrian writes of the advice given to Darius while he is in Sochi by Amyntas, son of Antiochus, and of several 'flattering courtiers'. Where did he get the information about what adivce was given to Darius and about Darius's views on different subjects? I don't see how these came from Ptolemy and Aristobulus. So where did they come from? Was there a deserter from Darius's court that told these stories to Ptolemy and such and this is how they were passed on? I find this very confusing how Arrian knows what Darius's advice was. Any help in this matter would be greatly appreciated.Sincerely,
Pam

[heinrich]

I do not know the answer, but perhaps it is relevant to note that Arrian has not two, but three, main sources: Nearchus is not mentioned in the preface, but is certainly the main source for large parts of Arrian's description of the Indian campaign and Alexander's last years.Elsewhere, Arrian is quoting from other sources when he introduces something with 'they say'. If he says that, he has his information from other sources than the two/three he thinks are the best. At least, that's what Bosworth says.HM

[Kit]

Hi Pam,I think a key thing to remember is that the three main sources that Arrian used were all eye witnesses to events that occured on Alexander's expedition, and even where they were not they had access to people who were.Several of Darius 'officials' later served Alexander in some capacity and it is possible that they transmitted details of previous discussions that had occured in Darius' court? There may also have been some written court records that later fell into Macedonian hands?Or,It could just have been made up! This is one of the frustrating things about Arrian. He can only be as good as the sources he relied upon, and sometimes they had agendas of their own to pursue. Hence, Ptolomy assumes more importance in Arrian's History of Alexander than he does in Curtius'. You may want to read one of the books on source criticism? Maybe someone else on the Forum could suggest a good one? regardsKit.

[agesilaos]

The story of Amyntas' advice appears in substantially the same form in Plutarch Alx 20 later in this paragraph he cites Chares for the fact that Alexander's wound in the thigh was delivered by Darius himself. This need not be taken as meaning that the whole of the preceding data is due to him , however. Arrian II 6 does read like a vulgate source even though he does not distinguish it from the main narrative as such. one thing we can be relatively certain of is that his source was not Kleitarchos as at this juncture Curtius inserts the story of Charidemos whose advice is similar but reflects more of the Herodotean advice given by Demaretos to Xerxes ie that he has many men but he is facing soldiers. It is likely that this stems from Kleitarchos proof positive would be found in Diodoros but his epitome omits the incident!Chares certainly wrote before either Ptolemy or Aristoboulos and they may have taken over this detail. As Alexander's chamberlain Chares would have had frequent dealings with the increasingly orientalised court and may have gathered genuine intelligence of the Persian plans on the other hand the unwillingness to accept sound advice and consequent disaster are stock themes.

[amyntoros]

I've often wondered the same thing myself - and not just about Arrian, but about any source, vulgate or otherwise, that claims to know what Darius did or said. Darius' reaction to the death of his wife is one good example, reported in detail in Curtius and Plutarch and even mentioned in Justin.Then recently I was re-reading Renault who (unsurprisingly) intimates that Bagoas was the source of much of this; he having obviously been close to Darius and in a position to hear what was said, and then later imparting the information to Alexander who had it recorded. (And that would also explain why Darius' words are so often flattering towards Alexander!)Admittedly, it's a darn good theory, especially when Darius is reported as having spoken on intimate matters, but as Kit says, there were other Persians also who served under both Darius and Alexander and could have shared knowledge of Darius' words on more military occasions.Best regards,Amyntoros