Re: knot

amyntoros · Post by **amyntoros** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 1:21 pm

Marcus, any chance of sending me a copy of that Alexander and Gordium article? Or is there a URL? I'm intrigued because I just found a connection between Midas and Macedonia myself. Have been busy transcribing anything relevant to Alexander and his time that can be found in Athenaeus. There's a single line that says:"First, roses which Midas of Odonia, when he left his realm in Asia, grew in the Emathian glebes, roses ever luxuriant with sixty petals all round."Emathia, according to the index, is a poetic name for Macedonia. So there definitely are connections that I never knew about between Midas and Macedonia and I love to read that article. :-)Best regards,Linda Ann

smittysmitty · Post by **smittysmitty** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 1:45 pm

Hi Linda,not sure about the article Marcus is talking about, but I assume whatever refrences are made more likely than not originate from Herodotus, particularly relating to Macedon, its Royal origins and Midas/gardens/roses with sixty petals etc. The Emathian plane was originally inhabited by Paeonians and later taken over by the Makedones, refrences are made to it by Justin, and If I remember correctly Thucydides. Emathia is generally refered to as the heart of Macedon, the lowlands that is.

amyntoros · Post by **amyntoros** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 3:52 pm

Thanks for that info, Smitty - it sounds like Midas might have always had more importance to the Macedonians than the Persians. And it's interesting, as Marcus says, that there doesn't seem to be any reference to the legend of the knot before Alexander. It wouldn't be inconceivable for them (him) to have created the whole thing. Even if the legend did exist, say in the time of Philip, there may not have been a real cart and knot in Gordium, necessitating the preparation of one for Alexander's "fulfillment" of the prophecy. Either way, it wouldn't have been too difficult to create one - a few applications of water on a complicated knotted rope and then letting it dry out in the sun would have made it almost impossible to untie. Of course, this would mean that Alexander, all along, planned to slash the knot with his sword rather than untie it. And yes, I also can see Aristander having had a hand in it, though I do believe Alexander was quite capable of conceiving the spectacle all by himself.When I first had this thought after reading these posts, it seemed quite far-fetched till I remembered the chap (too lazy to look up his name right now) who "created" and trained a mini-army of Amazons, just to please Alexander. I'm sure the people at Gordium would have been equally anxious to please him.This is an entertaining thread.

(And I'd still love to read that article if Marcus has it in an online file.)Best regards,Linda Ann

marcus · Post by **marcus** » Fri Jul 30, 2004 3:55 am

I'm not sure whether I have it electronically - although I know I have a paper copy. Let me check, and I'll let you know whether I can e-mail or whether I'll need to mail a copy.I'll check over the weekend...All the bestMarcus

dean · Post by **dean** » Sat Jul 31, 2004 4:08 am

Hello, while curious about the story myself- thought it would be interesting to put up the story itself about the knot's creation as it were- sorry if it's a bit long."A note here about King Gordius, for his is a fascinating story. Born to poor peasants, Gordius one day was startled to see a royal eagle perched comfortably on the pole of his ox-cart. No matter where Gordius drove the cart all morning, the eagle seemed determined to stay put. Interpreting this as an omen, Gordius decided to drive his team towards the nearest city, Phrygian Telmissus. He knew that there was a respected oracle there and he hoped that this seer would explain what the majestic eagle signified.However at the gate of the city he met a young prophetess, who upon seeing the royal eagle atop the ox-cart, insisted that Gordius immediately offer sacrifice to Zeus, King of the Olympians. She beseeched Gordius to let her accompany him and together they rode past the gates into the city, but not before Gordius made the young woman promise to marry him following their sacrifice to Zeus.Meanwhile, the King of Phrygia had suddenly died with no discernible cause, and the local oracle had pronounced that the city's new King was "approaching with his bride, seated in an ox-cart."Sure enough just then Gordius and the young prophetess entered the market place and the people rejoiced at the arrival of their new King. The royal eagle that was still majestically perched on the cart confirmed in their minds the legitimacy of the oracle's words, and loudly Gordius was acclaimed King of Phrygia.In gratitude, Gordius dedicated the cart to Zeus, together with its yoke, which he had fastened to the pole in a mighty knot. An oracle then declared that the person who discovered how to untie the knot would become the lord of Asia. For centuries nobody was able to achieve this impossible task, until finally Alexander the Great, during his mission to conquer the world, simply took out his sword and with a great blow sliced right through the Gordian Knot...Fulfilling the oracle's prophecy, Alexander became the lord of Asia and the ruler of the world."Of course it would really read slicing it with his sword or releasing the knot from the pin.Best, Dean.

dean · Post by **dean** » Sat Jul 31, 2004 4:29 am

Hello, Whilst on the subject- I think that it is interesting to note that there was another occasion which foretold that Alexander would one day conquer Persia- I am of course, referring to the burning down of the temple of Diana in Ephesus- I think that the saying was that while the temple was burning to the ground, the goddess was out playing mid-wife.Best regards,
Dean.

beausefaless · Post by **beausefaless** » Sat Jul 31, 2004 10:29 am

Greetings Dean,Artemis, The Virgin Goddess of the Moon, of the wilderness, the hunt and wild animals, and fertility also twin sister of Apollo, Left her temple unguarded to oversee (witness) the birth of Alexander. The pyromaniac by name of Herostratus burn the temple but it was rebuilt and if anyone spoke his name would be put to death so you can say he earned his fifteen minutes of fame the hard way.
When Alexander the Great came to Ephesus in 333 BCE, the temple was still under construction. He offered to finance the completion of the temple if the city would credit him as the builder. The city fathers didn't want Alexander's name carved on the temple, but didn't want to tell him that. They finally gave the tactful response: "It is not fitting that one god should build a temple for another god" and Alexander didn't press the matter.
You can find great stories about Artemis on the web. Diana was a Roman name.Regards, Andrew

smittysmitty · Post by **smittysmitty** » Sun Aug 01, 2004 10:48 am

Hi Dean,theres a good chance, in my humble opinion, many of the stories accompanied with the birth of Alexander stem from the workings of Aristander of Telmissus, Alexanders favourite 'Seer'. he more likely than not played a significant role in the P.R machine of ATG's.Always handy to have an eagle or two caged away, you never know when they may be needed

cheers!