to share with you: Dutch book by Kets de Vries

[nick]

Dear Companions -Recently I bought a copy of "Het Leiderschap van Alexander" (The Leadership of Alexander) by Dutch author M. Kets de Vries, published 2003 by publishing house Nieuwezijds, Amsterdam.Now, on pothos.org, our General Introduction on Alexander reads:*Alexander ranks among figures like Jesus Christ and Napoleon in the category "individuals who shaped the world as we know it". Before Alexander world civilisation had been dominated by eastern cultures - Persians, Egyptians, Babylonians. Alexander shifted the spotlight once and for all. From now on the western societies of the Romans and the Greeks would take over the torch.*Now Kets de Vries writes (page 164) - in Dutch:"Alexander behoort tot de categorie mensen die de wereld zoals wij die kennen vorm heeft gegeven. [...] In het tijdperk voor Alexander werd de wereldbeschaving overheerst door oosterse culturen - door Perzen, Egyptenaren en Babyloni+½rs. Alexander richtte de schijnwerper eens en voor al op andere gebieden. Na hem zouden de westerse samenlevingen van Romeinen en Grieken het stokje overnemen."Translated (from Dutch): "Alexander ranks among the category of individuals that shaped the world as we know it. In the era before Alexander world civilisation was dominated by eastern cultures - by Persians, Egyptians, Babylonians. Alexander directed the spotlight once and for all on different areas. After him the western societies of Romans and Greeks would take over ."This is just ONE example. In a book with 188 pages I counted that approximately 12-13 pages are directly copied from pothos.org, the English being directly translated into Dutch. Pothos.org is not mentioned as a source. Maybe one day I will just call the publising house and ask for an explanation.What is most amusing is that a Dutchman had translated my efforts to write in English back to my own mother tongue. Isn't that funny?Regards -Nick

[marcus]

To some extent I'd say that we should feel honoured; but on the other it sounds like pure plagiarism!The least they could do is put some sort on acknowledgement to the site.Damn their eyes!All the bestMarcus

[jona]

I am afraid that I am not surprised. Some time ago, I was called by the publisher of this book with a request - could he use the map of Alexander's campaigns that I once had made for a Dutch translation of Arrian? I agreed, and decided to write the author, because at that moment, I was still writing my own book and I thought it might be a nice idea to share our ideas. After all, he is a very well-known management theoreticist, and although as a historian I am a not well-known, we could benefit from each others knowledge.Kets de Vries, a very courteous man, called me on a Saturday morning and told me a bit about his book (which he later kindly sent me) and I told him about mine. Then something happened that I did no really understand. When he understood that (ahem) I knew really something and I offered to check his facts, he started to retire. He said that his book had no pretensions, that he was not describing how it really had been, that "his Alexander was just an artificial construct to explain his own theories".I did not want to object to a man who had, after all, courteously replied to a letter from a total stranger. Besides, I have always had a feeling that most management literature is based on constructed examples. There is nothing wrong with that; fiction was invented to explain truths when the ugly facts are too complex to be useful. As long as you're aware that your simplifying, it's okay.Later, I received my copy, which contained a very kind personal message - but unfortunately, also an awful lot of errors. The worst of these is that Kets de Vries created a psychological portrait of Alexander which is based on Plutarch's largely fictive youth stories. But there were many more errors.On page 69-70, we meet Alexander threatening to cross the Hydaspes and attack Taxila (which he had already captured); on page 93, Alexander dies on 10 June (must be 11 June). These are not simplifications that can be justified from a didactic point of view, these are examples of not doing your research - in this case, not looking on a map of the Punjab and ignoring an article by Leo Depuydt.Worse, it suggests that Kets de Vries is not interested in the truth. If he had asked one historian (for example, the historian/map-maker who had already offered him help during a nice telephone conversation on a Saturday morning) to check his facts, he would not have made these mistakes.Later, my brother-in-law sent me the text of a management lecture by K

[jona]

Later, my brother-in-law sent me the text of a management lecture by Kets de Vries, in which he summarized the theory already explained in his book. My brother-in-law also told me what he had paid for this lecture, and was rather pi--ed when I informed him that Kets de Vries's theories lacked foundation on an empirical base.So, I am left with very mixed feeling. I can not deny that Kets de Vries has shown more politeness than I have ever experienced on the Faculty of Arts where I sometimes work; on the other hand, his book is bad and so is his research.Jona

[S]

Greetings Nick, Jona and Marcus,I would suggest that the publisher be contacted and asked that all future publications credit Pothos for the plagiarized lines.The material is already "copyrighted"; further, if some of the authors who were copied are writers or professors in their own right, they will already have copyrighted the materials under their own names. There are some reciprocal international copyright laws in place; the publisher may appreciate being notified- not so much to cause distress for Mr. de Vries, but to ensure no legal issues come up for the publisher later... and to ensure that, should any of the original authors publsih their works later in another form, *they* are not accused of plagiarism!Regards,
Sikander

[amyntoros]

I suppose it must be quite flattering as well as infuriating to be plagarized, but you certainly should be given credit in a published book. Your writing is *very* popular on the web, Nick, and the sites do not always give Pothos as the source. Parts of your Introduction to Alexander pop up all over the place, but this page is a complete steal:

http://alexanderthegreat.isgreat.tv/STONE/ALEXANDER.htm

And by the way, I forgot to record the URL, but if you type the first line of the Introduction in Google, a PDF file of the first chapter of de Vries book can be found.:-)Best regards,Linda Ann

[marcus]

Nope, the Google search didn't work for me. That must have been an aberration! :-)Also, are you sure the URL you put in was correct - it didn't seem to work?(You can tell I'm a bit bored at work this afternoon, can't you!)All the bestMarcus

[amyntoros]

That's strange, Marcus. I checked the link again and it takes me right to the page. Mmmm. You could try: http://www.alexandermovies.tk/ which is the rather fancy online journal that I traced the site back to. Scroll down the right hand side until you come to the post that has a link reading Alexander/cast/www/extra. That goes to the "stolen page.The link for the pdf file on de Vries' book is:http://ged.insead.edu/fichiersti/insead ... fHopefully that one will work. And I do understand how it is when you are supposed to be working on something, but are bored. How do you think I found these pages? :-)Best regards,Linda Ann

[nick]

Hi Linda -Sorry for the late reply. We've been spending a week on the coast, enjoying the beach & Dutch seafood. Your links are wonderful: indeed the entire chapter copied & the timeline as well!OK, I am fully aware that anything published on the web isn't safe as far as 'authorship' goes. About copying for other websites: I am more amused than irritated. My English isn't perfect at all so it amazes me that people copy it blindly... Also, I am no proper scholar of ancient history, so that doubles my amusement...I just thought that a publisher of "real books" ought to be a little more careful, especially since the publisher concerned is officially part of the Dutch State Publishing House (StaatsDrukkerij & -Uitgeverij SDU). So it's a governmental enterprise... ;-)In late 2000 I had a similar case with an article of mine that was copied on another Dutch website (about tourism that is). I phoned a national newspaper (Volkskrant), because the same website also included their newspaper articles (for which they had no permission). It appeared that this newspaper had one full-time employee on their pay-roll who did nothing else all day than surfing the internet looking for unauthorized copying. Probably, as long as you can not afford to hire someone to do that for you, you will have to live with the fact that anything you write could be copied sooner or later.Thanks for your nice posting.Nick