Apology to all Forum members

[lazar]

Dear All,I would like to express my deepest regret of so lenghty posts on this forum, but i do not think that my posts are out of topic of this forum which is ATG. Since ATG had an ethnicity, and at this moment we are talking about it in this forum, i hope that is alright with you guys. Also i think that all of us should join in the quest for the truth once and for all, and get done with it. The truth is not that mysterious and hidden, it is right in front of our eyes, we just need to open them.Well, kind Regards to all of you,My apology again,Lazar

[THE LIGHT 7000]

Hi,
...This post is telling us that you-Lazar, must be Makedonian, somhow your appology is connected, maybe with your posts,( but they are very fair, both yours and those from Demetrious', little bit angriness and joke is what one is expected and is not harmfull, unless is very personal and miserable, which is absent here...), and maybe with Makedonian Day of Forgivness. ...Every year, Makedonians are forgiving to each other mistakes, youngsters asking forgivness from olders and vice versa, and both are asking God to forgive them thier mistakes... So my friends, in that spirit, please forgive me if I've done, somhow unwillingly, something that is for forgiving. May God forgive us all,...May peace prevail on Earth for ever and ever...With all my Love truth and LightThe Light 7000

[ruthaki]

I'm very impressed with the people on the forum. For the most part people here are kind and so very knowlegable about our favorite subject, Alexander, and willing to share thoughts and information.
Bravo, everyone!

[alejandro]

Dear LazarI donGÇÖt mind long posts. In fact, this is a very long one too. What is getting me a bit bored is this constant discussion about whether Macedonians were Greek or not.As you said, it could be interesting to determine AlexanderGÇÖs ethnicity, but actually I particularly donGÇÖt feel GÇ£extraordinarily drawnGÇ¥ to research it with all my strengths. Knowing the GÇ£trueGÇ¥ ethnicity of Alexander (if, and it is a big IF, it were possible) is not that important to me. ItGÇÖs as relevant (from my point of view) as knowing whether he was blond or auburn, how tall he was or whether he got one eye blue and the other one grey. They are all interesting details, but no substantial gain in terms of knowledge about his persona.Of course, this is a matter of personal taste, and you (as everyone else) are entitled to focus your attention on whichever aspect of AlexanderGÇÖs life you like most. But I think this particular issue is almost bound to generate controversy because of the undeniable connection with todayGÇÖs geopolitics. And the problem is, even if you try to be as objective as possible (and I noticed in your posts your effort to be as objective as possible), objectivity is something that cannot be attained (just to give you a little example, where the issues of patriotism have no relevance and where the GÇ£stakesGÇ¥ are much smaller: I often have to mark essays and exercises submitted by my students, and though I do my best to be objective, as soon as you read the name of the person whose essay youGÇÖre going to mark, your brain associates it with a series of images and judgements, that make objectivity impossible from then on. You can try to avoid subjectivity, but the fact that you know who you are marking is enough to ensure that it is present. The same is true in the Macedonian-Greek debate. Even when you try to circumscribe your analysis to ancient times, when you listen GÇ£MacedoniaGÇ¥ and GÇ£GreeceGÇ¥ you cannot avoid making all those relations mentioned before: each of this words have an emotional effect, regardless of whether you like it or not, whether you requested it or not, and hence objectivity is lost).Again, I donGÇÖt mean youGÇÖre biased. Totally on the contrary, I mean that we are all subject to the same problem. But certainly it is less likely that words like GÇ£phalanxGÇ¥, GÇ£kingGÇ¥ or GÇ£philosophyGÇ¥ will ignite subjectivity than GÇ£MacedoniaGÇ¥ and GÇ£GreeceGÇ¥. And again, in a pure cost-benefit analysis (sorry, being an economist I canGÇÖt help it), I think that the gain

[alejandro]

Again, I donGÇÖt mean youGÇÖre biased. Totally on the contrary, I mean that we are all subject to the same problem. But certainly it is less likely that words like GÇ£phalanxGÇ¥, GÇ£kingGÇ¥ or GÇ£philosophyGÇ¥ will ignite subjectivity than GÇ£MacedoniaGÇ¥ and GÇ£GreeceGÇ¥. And again, in a pure cost-benefit analysis (sorry, being an economist I canGÇÖt help it), I think that the gain of knowing whether people that lived 2500 years ago were of the same ethnic stock or not is not worth (for me) the hassle of having this issue again and again discussed in this forum.I mean, I didnGÇÖt get GÇ£hookedGÇ¥ by Alexander because he was Macedonian or Greek, blonde or auburn, tall or short. I got hooked because of the extraordinary life he lived, for the superhuman feats he accomplished and for the far-flung goals that he set for himself. I think thatGÇÖs the Alexander I knew, and little else is important.The Great himself said so: GÇ£God is the father of every man, but the virtuous ones are especially dear to himGÇ¥. So Persian or Macedonian or Greek, it doesnGÇÖt really matter, does it?Finally, and please donGÇÖt think I am snobbish or that I feel above you. This is again something that I remark because it first struck a chord with me and I realized itGÇÖs something that I do many times. I think it was again Alexander (but could be someone else) who said: GÇ£People who have nothing to be proud about themselves only find pride in being citizen of the same city than famous Olympic winnersGÇ¥. So please, letGÇÖs stop this fight for getting Alexander being a GÇ£Macedonian national heroGÇ¥ or a GÇ£Greek national heroGÇ¥. In the end, the only truth is that for everyone in this forum, Alexander is GÇ£theirGÇ¥ hero, irrespective of his ethnicity. HeGÇÖs a hero, again, because of the way he lived his life, acknowledged his own mistakes, and always GÇ£played for gloryGÇ¥.Maybe we should all reflect on it, rather than on where he was born or who his ancestors were. This is at least what I think.All the bestAlejandro

[nick]

Hi Miguel -About your big IF...I think it was during my studies that I read an article about "cross-cultural communication". The author started explaining that "determining ethnicity" on objective grounds is impossible.Therefore, the best definition of ethnicity, the author argued, is to stick to how someone adresses himself of herself. If someone says "I am a Turk", then he is a Turk. If someone says "I am an American", then he is an American.So I figure the only solution is to ask Alexander. As this can no longer be done, I consider the case closed. Any answer on other grounds than knowing how Alexander would adress himself, will stay open to debate.Regards -Nick

[alejandro]

Hi NickI fully agree with you. The definition of ethnicity is so elusive that you end up with the GÇ£punyGÇ¥ solution of leaving it to the subject him/herself to decide it.I certainly agree that analyzing as many (also elusive) issues as genetics, language, religion and customs is very demanding, and though theoretically possible, it is empirically impossible (especially regarding people who lived 2300 years ago).However, thereGÇÖs an interesting twist to your theory: in epistemology, GÇ£objectivityGÇ¥ is usually defined as GÇ£inter-subjective agreementGÇ¥, ie, whatever is agreed by the GÇ£relevantGÇ¥ group (and defining GÇ£relevantGÇ¥ is another big problem) is true. Eg, if everyone agrees that the strawberries are red, then ther are GÇ£objectivelyGÇ¥ red. I donGÇÖt want to enter into a cumbersome discussion of the topic (if a group of daltonic people call GÇ£redGÇ¥ to what non-daltonic people call GÇ£greenGÇ¥, who are right?), but thereGÇÖs an off-shoot that could be interesting from our point of view: if most of the people agree that Macedonians were Greek, can we say that they were, simply because most people believe it so?ItGÇÖs an interesting question (at least for me): is one Macedonian because one thinks so? Or because most of the people think so?In the end, it is a problem endemic to every concept: defining boundaries. What is, in the end, GÇ£being MacedonianGÇ¥ or GÇ£being GreekGÇ¥?The truly big problem is who is allowed to define them, and hence the importance of the GÇ£relevantGÇ¥ group.And even more, in the particular case of social science, we have the extra problem that we are not defining inanimate opinion-less objects as is the case in biology or physics, but living self-conscious subjects which have their own opinion about themselves.An interesting topic indeedGǪFor the sake of simplicity, I would support the self-defining theory you proposed, but the other is not so easily discardedGǪThoughts?Kind regardsAlejandroPS: By the way, I decided IGÇÖm a Kryptonian.

[Boro]

"As you said, it could be interesting to determine AlexanderGÇÖs ethnicity, but actually I particularly donGÇÖt feel GÇ£extraordinarily drawnGÇ¥ to research it with all my strengths. Knowing the GÇ£trueGÇ¥ ethnicity of Alexander (if, and it is a big IF, it were possible) is not that important to me."Words of alejandro !On the first look seems to me that is ok, but...It is very important for real Macedonians to know who is Alexander III of Macedon.That's because Greeks took our contry name (today we are known as FYROM)and our flag.Take a look at history. Read something about "Bucharest peace deal" and tell me who are we. Are we a Greeks, Bulgarians or Serbs ? Or as St. Paul says:"When the uproar had ended, Paul sent for the disciples and, after encouraging them, said good-by and set out for Macedonia. He travelled through that area, speaking many words of encouragement to the people, and finally arrived in Greece, where he stayed three months. Because the Jews made a plot against him just as he was about to sail for Syria, he decided to go back through Macedonia."The Holy Bible - Acts 20:1-3