Freedom of Speech

[dean]

Hello,One of the things that quite impressed me was the assertion in one of Renault's books that in Macedonia any soldier had freedom of speech before the king. The antithesis would, I suppose, be the Charedemos case in the Persian court where one would be executed for "speaking one's mind."I wonder if anyone could clear up for me the historicity of this assertion by Renault because I have my doubts.(Renault sometimes idealises certain aspects of Alexander's reign.) I must admit that Alexander's permission to one soldier to go back,(if I remember rightly) to Macedonia to see his wife on the condition that he brought back more soldiers does seem to imply that Alexander didn't object to listening to his men.Of course, things with respect to this start to go pear shaped in Persia where perhaps a touch of megalomania crept in. Callisthenes (whatever happened to him) seems to be a prime example. Alexander, in Plutarch, is quoted as saying "Hate the wiseman who isn't wise with regards to himself" apologise for my poor translation from the Spanish copy I have of Plutarch.Was freedom of speech a reality in the Macedonian court during Philip's or Alexander's reign?Best regards,
Dean.

[ruthaki]

I will have to recheck my research notes, but in doing research on the Macedonian Assembly, I believe it's true that the men were given their chance to speak. Only Macedonians could attend the Assembly, as far as I know. I'll check further, but perhaps others here have more to add. Ruth

[marcus]

That appears basically to be the case. There have been quite a few articles on whether the Assembly quite had the powers that were traditionally ascribed to it. But it does seem clear that people could say pretty much what they wanted to the king.And it didn't stop with the soldiers, either - there is the story of the woman who had a case to bring to Philip, who declined to see her (he was drunk, or something). She spoke her mind and shamed him into hearing her case. (Sorry, details of the story elude me for the moment.)Of course, there came a time when free speech and unlimited access to the king became rather curtailed - ref. Kleitos! (One of Kleitos' main grievances was that he felt he had to go through a series of barbarian 'chamberlains' before he could see Alexander; where previously he just had to pitch up and knock on the tent flap...All the bestMarcus

[ruthaki]

You're right about that, Marcus. That was one of the big complaints during the stay in Persia (among others) especially from the old guard who were used to having accessibility and comradship with the king. A bit of hubris on Alexander's part?

[Kit]

Marcus,If memory serves the old woman approached Phillip who said something along the lines of 'I don't have the time', to which the old woman replied along the lines of 'Well don't be king then'.But that is just a very rough recall from memory- you get the gist though.regards,Kit.

[amyntoros]

There seem to be several versions of this story - all slightly different. These two are from Plutarch's Moralia, Vol III.'While he was hearing the case of Machaetas, he was near falling asleep, and did not give full attention to the rights of the case, but decided against Machaetas. And when Machaetas exclaimed that he appealed from the decision, Philip, thoroughly enraged, said, "To Whom?" And Machaetas replied, "To you yourself, Your Majesty, if you will listen awake and attentive." At the time Philip merely ended the sitting, but when he had gained more control of himself and realized that Machaetas was treated unfairly, he did not reverse his decision, but satisfied the judgement with his own money.''When a poor old woman insisted that her case should be heard before him, and often caused him annoyance, he said he had no time to spare, whereupon she burst out, "Then give up being king." Philip, amazed at her words, proceeded at once to hear not only her case but those of the others.'I know I've seen another version involving a woman. In this one, Philip was drunk and the woman said she would appeal, this time to "Philip, sober." I suspect it is from Plutarch again, but right now I can't find the reference.All the best,
Linda Ann

[marcus]

Chris and Linda,Yes, those appear to be the details I couldn't quite remember. I knew there was something about the appeal to "Philip sober" but I couldn't remember whether it was the old woman's case or not.All the bestMarcus

[smittysmitty]

hi all,the old woman story must be a favourite of Plutarchs, he uses it again in his book on Demetrius (42)'On another occassion an old woman accosted Demetrius and kept asking him to give her audience.
Demetrius replied he could not spare the time, whereupon the old woman screamed at him, "Then don't be King!" This rebuke stung Demetrius to the quick. He went back to his house, put off all other business and for several days gave audience to everybody who asked for it, beginning with the old woman.' The prelude to this 'old woman' story, brings forward how accessible Philip was in comparison....'and they recalled or listened to those old enough to remember how accessible Philip had been and how considerate in such matters.'Interesting!cheers!

[agesilaos]

I suspect that the old woman story does relate to Demetrius, and that when compiling his Moralia Plutarch confused the King in question since Philip had been mentioned in the context of the story whose ultimate source may be Douris of Samos, Hieronymos being a scion of Antigonid propaganda would not besmirch the golden boy's reputation as readily as the friend of Lysimachos.

[smittysmitty]

Hi Karl,I agree with you!cheers!

[amyntoros]

Unfortunately, I'm not familiar with the sources you mention. However, I do respect your considerable knowledge on these matters, but find it regrettable that the tale may not be correctly credited to Philip. I'm hoping that the other tales in the Moralia are properly assigned. I've been informally collecting anecdotes on Philip from Plutarch and Athenaeus and have found myself becoming quite fond of the old dog! :-)Linda Ann

[dean]

Hello,
yes Linda- it is quite a shame that in general he is so completely eclipsed by his son as there are many a good anecdote about him.The one that always springs to mind is when he was having his haircut and when asked how he wanted it cutting he says laconically "In silence"Best regards,
Dean.

[gb]

Which is something many a modern-day hairdresser and barber should take to heart...

[agesilaos]

I hate to be a party pooper but wasn't that Vespasian?

[dean]

Hi,
As far as I know it was Philip who first came out with this anecdote- yet I believe that Vespesian was quite fond of the odd joke here and there so maybe he repeated it?Best regards,
Dean.