Maternal bloodline

[marcus]

Pretty neat, huh?Actually, I have to hand it to Mary Renault, because it was through re-reading (after many, many years) "The Bull From the Sea". At the end of the book Theseus is at Lykomedes' court and sees the young Achilles from a distance (but refuses to meet him).I checked the references and realised that she was right - it was Lykomedes in both cases.As Hannibal Smith in the A-Team used to say... "I love it when a plan comes together"!Marcus

[smittysmitty]

Hi all,
I understand, how the name Pyrrhos comes about and to my knowledge that was his birth name according to various sources. His name then apparently changes when he goes to Troy to Neoptolemus, what I'm alluding to, is this a possible case of synchritism? There is no mention anywhere(that I'm aware ) of his birth name being Neoptolemus.
just my thoughts.
cheers!

[smittysmitty]

Oh yeah, almost forgot, the nick name pyrrhos was applicable to Achillies, there's nothing to suggest his son had the nick name also rather that it was his name.cheers!

[marcus]

Hi Smitty,That's interesting, and certainly new to me.Have you got any references for that? (Not that I don't believe you, 'cos I don't know any better - but as I've only ever known him as Neoptolemos I'd like to get chapter and verse.)CheersMarcus

[Sinfest]

There is also the Homeric version that has Achilles never hiding in Skyros,but joining the war immediately.According to the Cypria,he married Deidamea and had Neoptolemus (in Skyros again) after returning from the battle of Mysia.Achilles refers to his son as Neoptolemus,in the Iliad (book 19).It is said that his alternate name was Pyrrus,cause he had red hair.Indeed kings/princes had alternate names.Like Paris-Alexandros,Skamandrios-Astyanax...According to Apollodorus Achilles' first name was Lygiron.

[smittysmitty]

Hi,sorry Marcus for thew delayed response; having problems getting 'pothos' on line lately.Re: Pyrrhos/Neoptolemos/syncretism,I think it generally accepted among historians/mythographers of old, that Pyrrhos was indeed his birth name. According to Apollodorus account of the 'Asopids' ( book 3:10:13 )'while he (Achillies) was growing up at his (Lycomedes) court, Achillies had intercourse with Deidameia, the daughter of Lycomedes, and a son Pyrrhos, was born to him, who was later called Neoptolemos.'Interestingly enough, Pausanias a mythographer by all accounts sees the inconsistancy in this myth origin and rarely uses the name Neoptolemos, whereas other writers use both names indiscriminantly. It has been suggested the name Neoptolemos is derived from the following; because he was very young (Neos) and (Polemos) from when he went to war at Troy.Make of it what you wish! :)What makes me believe syncretism is at work here is an interestin comment made by Plutarch re. Achillies. He states that in the nomenclature of the region (being Epoirus ) Achillies was known as
'Aspetus', and we can find multiple referances from Thucydides alluding to the non hellenic nature of the Epirotic tribes such as the Molossians, Thesprotians, Chaonians, etc. Without going into a thesis level discussion, I would suggest there is a strong case for syncretism existing in Epirus, perhaps ( this is sure to get a response from certain forum members ) even Macedon!
just my thoughts cheers!