The Lion of Macedon by David Gemmell

[jan]

I am reading a book by David Gemmell which is on the subject of Parmenion. It is titled The Lion of Macedon. Through this book we learn of Parmenion's history, and finally of Philip of Macedon. My question is how much material is available on the subject of Parmenion. I am wondering at the historical accuracy of this storyline.It is an interesting intro to Philip as well. I had not realized at the age gap between Parmenion and Alexander until I read this book. It makes the death of Parmenion that much more difficult when one understands his history.As Parmenion is 16 years older than Philip, he must have been the grand old man to Alexander. Does anyone know? Thanks in advance.Jan

[marcus]

Hi Jan,I read "Lion of Macedon" years ago and, while I thought it was quite a good book, it was more fiction than history. Certainly the stuff about Parmenion being brought up in Sparta is supposition. Enjoy the book, but my advice would be to be *very* wary of accepting much of what he says.However, on *no account* should you read the follow up, "Dark Prince", which is one of the most rubbish books ever...As regards Parmenion's age, I can't remember exactly, but he was in his late 60s or even 70+ when he was killed, so he was more than 40 years older than Alexander. We don't know exactly how old he was, but the 16 year age gap between him and Philip probably isn't far off.All the bestMarcus

[jan]

Hi Marcus,I am so glad that you have warned me about Dark Prince. Finishing the book, I am in somewhat of a dither about the reckless way Gemmell has with history, but it does make me understand now why Judith French is as reckless with Roxanne. Since they are fiction, it helps in teaching that fiction is never truth at all.Michael Curtis Ford has written a book called The Ten Thousand, which is about Xenophon. So at least Gemmell did that much for me which is to help me to look back to earlier times; thus, helping to understand the notions that helped to fashion Alexander's mind. I picked up the book to read upon learning of its topic.I am certain that Dark Prince will be a disappointment and while I did check it out to read, I have begun simply speedreading it to see what lies ahead, as I have read Jean Reames-Zimmerman's book review of it too.Understanding the premise that is in Book 3 of Lion of Macedon, I am certain that I will not give too much credit to Dark Prince as being nothing more than a chance for Gemmell to express the darkness that must lie within his own imagination. I read his bio, and it is most interesting in the Gemmellmania website. Somehow Parmenion has struck me as quite dutiful and today I was comparing both Parmenion and Alexander to the movie Patton where Omar Bradley is a man of duty and Patton a man of passion. So it is quite extraordinary to imagine a Parmenion as Gemmell invisions. But so that is the author for you.To me, his twists and turns belie the entire history of Alexander as it is so important to understand Alexander's belief in his bloodline extending from the great gods and goddesses. So I wonder at what Gemmell is thinking. However, thanks for the warning. I will heed it.

[jan]

Oh, I did notice one thing in Dark Prince that caught my attention, and that was the use of the phrase " he cocked his head". I found that twice at least, and it reminded me of the script that someone placed on this forum some time ago about a moment between Hephaestion and Alexander. I wondered then if Gemmell is not really the script writer for that movie then. Just to let you know.Jan

[gb]

So... he's been ghosting for Oliver Stone? Who knows? I did read somewhere that Mr. Stone has been working closely with Robin Lane Fox.I read those scenes, they were supposed to be the ones used for auditioning the part of Hephaistion, I can-¦t help but reproduce the one with the cocked head-reference, although I fear for the whole project if this is representative for the rest of the script...-----Hephaistion is struck once more by Alexander's almost heart-breaking belief in myth.H: -- Will it ever be enough, Alexander? Even if you found the 'End of the World,' how would you turn back?A (acknowledging) : I'd weep if there were no more worlds to conquer. (looks warmly at Hephaistion) Our fates are intertwined. They always were, Hephaistion, you know that. (Hephaistion nods, then) -- I've missed you...H: -- And I you... but for the boy--A: I know. But now I am the older one.H: (sad) -- You still hold your head cocked, you know, like that...A: (insisting) I stopped that. (he hasn't)H: No -- like a deer, listening in the wind. You still have that look. You strike me still, Alexander. You have eyes like no other... (embarrassed) I sound stupid, like a schoolboy -- but you are everything I care for.He approaches Alexander tentatively, and with his permission, draws him into an embrace.H: ...and, by Aphrodite, I'm so jealous of losing you to this 'world' you want so badly.A: You'll never lose me, Hephaistion. You'll always be my Patroclus. -----

[S]

Greetings Jan,
You know what I feel about the book! That said, regarding Alexander and Parmenion, the adage "Keep your friends closer, your enemies closer" probably applies here.
Regards,
Sikander

[marcus]

Hi Jan,I'd say you're spot on in your analysis of Gemmell. I've read (most of) his fantasy books, which are fine for a quick, non-intellectual read... but he should steer well clear of history!I read "The Ten Thousand" by Curtis Ford a while ago, too. I enjoyed it, although in the end I couldn't help feeling that you might as well read Xenophon himself. (Having said that, no doubt everyone would say that about all those of us who are writing books on Alexander... so I shouldn't labour that point! ).Curtis Ford has also written another, called "Gods and Legions", which is about Julian the Apostate. Obviously it doesn't relate to Alexander at all, being set around 500 years after his death(!), but it's a good book - better than "The Ten Thousand".All the bestMarcus

[ruthaki]

In regards to Parmenio: He, Antigonos and Antipater were the grand old men of the Macedonian army. Except that Parmenion was killed, the other two lives to be very old which is kind of amazing considering the number of battles they fought.In regards to 'fiction' not being 'history'. When you are writing 'historical fiction' you are not writing a history text. BUT I still believe you need to stick as close to the historical facts as possible. How you interpret the characters is however deeply you have researched them. You have poetic license to portray them which ever way you see them from that information. But your research should be thorough and you have to be careful about just 'making things up' or your story will lose credibility.

[marcus]

Hi Ruth,I reckon you're right in every respect there.However, if you ever have the misfortune to read "Dark Prince", you'll see that not only is Gemmell's history pretty suspect, but his characterisation is inconsistent and, in some cases, quite inexplicable.Nul points on all counts for Mr Gemmell there! :-)As George Bernard Shaw said of someone's book:"I only have three complaints with your book: the beginning, the middle and the end."All the bestMarcus

[jan]

I don't wish to ruin the reading for anyone who has not yet read these fantasy books, but Gemmell does occasionally stretch the imagination and make one thing. The problem is that he does distort the truth, yet provides some historical knowledge that is unknown. I took Marcus's advice not to bother with Dark Prince, and so I skimmed through it speed reading, rather than enjoying it at the pace that I read Lion In Macedon. I uncovered a couple of things that were helpful, such as the burning of the Avesta which Gemmell has located inside the Palace of Xerxes. His description of that event was interesting to me.I liked his skill with which he used the device of Tamis and Derae as sorceresses to read the past as well as see into the future. It was quite fascinating to me as to how he may have used Nostradamus or some other seer as a means of understanding "witches" ability to glean all time.As Marcus says, Dark Prince is rubbish, but it is pure fantasy in which amulets play such an important role, and I find that very English. I remember teaching a short story about a knight who was empowered with an amulet to achieve success, only to have to learn that he was only developing gradual confidence in himself, and that the amulet had nothing to do with it at all, but his belief in it. So it was with the amulet, (the necklace device) which kept Alexander pure and free from the power of the Dark God for awhile.I object to making Parmenion the character that he is in these novels, but I imagine that David Gemmell is likely to want Prince Andrew to be King of England instead of Charles too. That part of the plot is truly disturbing to me. For Parmenion to have been second to Alexander for so long means that he was a soldier of great distinction, and I do wonder about his background. At any rate, the novels have some interesting insights and attitudes. The ending of Dark Prince is really funny! I can't help but laugh.

[S]

Greetings Ruth,I agree- "historical fiction" should at least follow *some* semblance of history (which is a form of fiction itself). Too many authors re-create history in order to put themselves into a story via a fictional character, in order to create a famous character in their own image, or in order to create a historical figure in the image they wish to see him or her in! One reason I do not usually read fiction...As to Parmenion, he was indeed one of the "grand old men", but I do not believe Alexander trusted him completely, for many reasons. One of the interesting things about history is trying to trace the factions and how they related. As we have said before, the complicated relations among the Makedonian aristo were can be likened to the modern day Cosa Nostra/Mafia families and relations!Regards,
Sikander

[jan]

Having just finished reading the translation of Quintus Curtius Rufus, I understand where David Gemmell could have conceived his Dark God theory, if the story about the eunuch Bagoas is true.But I find that this book makes Alexander not only look like a dupe and a fool, a madman, and an idiot, I don't think it is the best propaganda to fool the common man about the character and person of Alexander. Curtius book, not Gemmell's book.If Bagoas had been correct about Orsine, rather than s Curtius suggests, an evil manipulator of Alexander, then perhaps the hanging is justified. But none of us really knows, and that is the most important point of all. As only fragments of the real history exist, all else is speculation.Gemmell's book is fiction, but Curtius's book appears to be translations of tales told by the soldiers and adventurers of the times. All they do is give an insight into the stories that prevailed, not the truth of what really happened.At least, now I finally understand the reason for so much controversy regarding this superhero, in even death. His body appearing as it does according to the stories that Curtius apparently does not believe himself, suggest that perhaps arsenic may have been the cause of death. who knows? Maybe he was kept intact because that is the lot of a god. :-)Jan

[ruthaki]

Sikander, I love your reference to likening the old clans of Macedon to the mafia families of modern times. And therefore, no doubt, Alexander had good reason to see that Parmenio was put out of the way once his traitor son was killed. Yep, you're probably right there!