Alexander and Indian Culture.

[dean]

Hello,Was wondering if anyone out there could help me with the following.After Alexander's "victory" at Hydaspes, (think I have spelt it right) and exploration of India- did he leave any imprint on India's culture or history or was his victory there as ephemeral as his "empire" was in general.I think it would be interesting to know if Alexander was mentioned in any historical books from India or was seen on any monuments etcBest regards and Merry Christmas to all my friends at the forum.
Dean.

[stavros]

HelloAs a martial artist I have come across this previously, which you will find interesting. I found this amazing how the Greeks mixed with the east and could have possibly triggered modern day martial arts to the form it is today.The ancient Greeks introduced in 648 b.c and practiced the Olympic Game: Pankration. Although an Olympic Game it was also the ancient Greek martial art, used for training and recreation for soldiers. Pankaration is also known as ancient greek boxing (as you all would know) but a little more brutal. The only pankration clubs i know of today exist in Greece and the United States. Anyway.In fact, pankration was initially encouraged in ancient Greece because the survival of a city-state or army depended on the athletic and military skills of the citizens or soldiers. To cut a long story short, the conquering Alexander the Great introduced Pankration into India in the fourth century b.c. Apparently in India, pankration is said to have combined with a native Indian form of unarmed combat, called 'vajramushti' to from an early style of karate. The link between Greek culture and athletics and the early development of karate like combat in India and China may also be found in Buddhism. The Indian kind Asoka, an ally of Alexander, spread Buddhism throughout India - a Buddhism strongly influenced by Greek Culture. Asoka's Gandharan kingdom, acted as a 'Hellenic filter' that brought Greek influence not only to India but to all of Asia on the wings of Buddhism. it was Gandharan art that created the human image of Buddha. Just as the Indian Buddhists introduced Greek-style statuary, called Gandharan, into China. It was an Indian Buddhist monk named Bodhidharma (Daruma) who introduced Zen Buddhism and an early form of karate into China around 520 a.d.Although this information is speculation, it is not without reason to suspect that Daruma the Buddhist monk was familiar with Greek culture and pankration bought to India by Alexander. When in china at the famous Buddhist Shaolin Temple, Daruma taught the monks his system of Zen Buddhism as well as his skill in empty hand fighting-a style that most likely contained elements of Greek Pankration and Indian Vajramushti.What is also interesting to know is that karate legends like Mas Oyama, believe that the origin of modern karate is to be found in the most popular and brutal greek Olympic Game: Pankration. So India is without doubt the midpoint between

[gb]

I suspect Dr. Ranajit Pal could tell you more.Here's his website: http://www.geocities.com/ranajitda/

[Polyxena]

Hi Dean,I'm also trying to discover the real links between Alexander the Great and the ancient Indian culture. Actually, in the ancient Indian literature, Alexander was mentioned as Skanda, thus becaming the Indian war god. The name Skanda, according ancient Sanskrit, means "the leader of an army". In addition to this, I've found one image of this god, Skanda, being 12-faiced... so, I wonder if this could be linked with the 12 Olympian gods.Best regards,
Poliksena

[susan]

I transcribed this article last year, about the connections between Alexander and the Skanda legends.
http://murugan.org/research/gopalapillai.htmActually, I don't think it is very likely, but if anyone wants to discuss it further, I'll be happy to do so
Susan

[ruthaki]

I believe there are some traces of him or the Greeks in the Taxila area. I'll have to recheck my research files but don't have time at this moment (Christmas and all). As one of the characters in my novel is a mahout from Taxila, (and his elephant, which is one of the herd of 50 they brought Macedonia to present to Antipater)I did quite a bit of research at the British School Library in Athens on India at the time of Alexander. So there are some books out there you could check. Season's greetings, Ruthaki

[dean]

Hello,Thankyou all for your replies- all were very interesting to say the least.I was reading through the website too recommended by Susan and found it to be quite a beautifully presented page- definitely recommendable regarding India and Alexander- although I have to admit that I haven't read it all yet.Best wishes and thanks to you all once again.
Dean.

[Ranajit Pal]

Hi Dean,It is absurd to try to reconstruct Alexander on the basis of the European sources alone. Alexander as seen from India appears to be very different. If one recognises that Moeris was the same as Chandragupta Maurya the Gedrosian voyage becomes a military campaign against the Prasii and all allusions to Dionysius, Semiramis etc. become pointless. Secondly even with a trait of madness BadianGÇÖs Alexander would not possibly have ventured eastward after the huge haul at Persepolis. This together with his plans to invade Arabia shows that he had some kind of a Mission, and to understand this it is crucial to consider the Indian evidence. One has to look at Asoka (same as the Indo-Greek king Diodotus-I) who had reinscribed on some, if not all, of his altars. Green mocks at AlexanderGÇÖs call for Homonoia but the edicts reveal how much AsokaGÇÖs call for Homonoia (Samanvaya in Sanskrit) owes to Alexander. To understand AlexanderGÇÖs legacy it has to be realised that AsokaGÇÖs edicts on pillars erected by Alexander not only ushered in a new era in Indian civilisation they also paved the way for a wider religious reformations that changed the destiny of Man. There is much more about India and Alexander. Mary Renault has highlighted the influence of Calanus whom I have identified with Asvaghosa. I think it may not be an accident that Shiva is the name of a prominent Indian God and the word Amon in Indian languages means homonoia. I have written elsewhere that Buddhism first emerged as a deviant form of Shaivism (Shiva GÇôreligion). The recent excavations at Berenike have revealed a very close link between India and Egypt and perhaps much more remains to be unearthed. There may be an Indian component in the mid-second millennium BC religious reforms in Egypt. That there were Indians at Tell al Amarna is well known. Here I have to sound a warning - India of the 4th century BC should not be confused with modern India.I agree with Susan that the mythology of Skanda was partly inspired by Alexander. I also sense some influence on the elephant-headed god Ganesha who is said to be SkandaGÇÖs brother. He smites the king of Sindhu which may be an allusion to the war with Porus. I have suggested that Kanik was AlexanderGÇÖs name in Indan literature and this is the root of the name Ganesha (Kana=Great). Regards,Dr. Pal

[stavros]

hi Dr. Palthe foundations of karate may have begun in India, this may coincide with Buddhism being spread from Indian to China with the shaolin monks being taught an indian form of martial arts by an indian monk travelling to china.what is your understanding of this? and do you think the ancient greeks and the sport 'pankration' had an influence or maybe combined with the indian form of unarmed combat 'varjramushti'?kind regards,stavros

[dean]

Hello,I think that also we must take into account the brevity in historical terms of his entrance and departure from India- 327 to 325- just two years and he was gone.Would the people from India have heard of him before and due to the brevity of his appearance there were they likely to perceive him as much more than a will-o- the wisp character? I don't know. Calanus as you say had his importance and above all his voluntary death in Susa shocked many and his curious decision to follow Alexander to start off with.Best regards and thanks for the help,
Dean.

[Dr. Pal]

Hi Stavros and Dean,Frankly I do not know enough to comment on the history of Pankration or Karate. The Chinese had an old military tradition but I feel their debt to Indo-Iran is not always understood. I have written in my book that the name of Confusius may be an echo of Cambyses (kan-bu-jia of the texts) In India the southern state of Kerala has an ancient martial art which reminds me of Karate. Zen may have originated in India. Sir Charles Eliot wrote that Buddhism came to China from the North West of India. In fact the name China or Sin is also rather recent and cannot be traced before about the sixth century BC. The Indian texts speak of the country Mahasin and Mahachin (Maha=Great) which I think is the north-west. Dean you make a valid point but his stay in India was short but probably not as brief as you imagine because in the fourth century Afghanistan and Southeast Iran (Hidus) were known as India. The earliest images of Ganesha are found from the Kapisa area, not Deccan where he is now worshipped now.Regards,Dr. Pal

[stavros]

Hello Dr. Pali dont know much about indian history or culture, besides the fact that they are an ancient civilization. must learn. thank you for the reply,stavros

[Dr. Pal]

Hi all,The statement that Alexander is not mentioned in Indian literature and, therefore, had little impact on the Indian civilisation, has become some kind of a clich+¬. It not only influenced writers like Badian and Green but even great scholars like Tarn and Rostoftzeff were bafffled by the apparent lack of references to Alexander. In my book I have attributed this to the fact that after Chandragupta and the Generals took over there was a systematic campaign of disinformation which necessitated the destruction of many documents. Yet significant clues remain that help us to reconstruct history.Unfortunately almost no one has realised the importance of my suggestion that Chandanadasa in the Sanskrit drama Mudrarakshasa is a ghost of Alexander. Sholars have found it almost impossible to date this drama and due to Jonesian delusions its locale has been fixed at Patna in eastern India but the drama pertains to the North West where Alexander had come. Although the present form of the drama is a later recension its core may belong to the fourth century BC. Ancient commentators like Dhundiraja wrote that the drama is about the rise of the Mauryas. I have also written, with perhaps more enthusiasm than proof, that Vishakhadatta, the author is Chandragupta himself. AlexanderGÇÖs fondness for drama is well known and I feel that being very close to him Sasigupta also shared this enthusiasm. Where was the drama Agen, allegedly written by Alexander, first staged? If this was in Bactria or Pattala, Moeris was probably still in his good books and it is even possible that he did some of the writing.Regards,Dr. Pal

[lazar]

Stavros, Go back to the archive and visit my posts about Peter Green,s book, and Arrian books. Best Regards, Lazar

[beausefaless]

The movie Sikander made in 1941 was made by an Indian production company and Alexander was a part of India's ancient history. As far as Alexander leaving any imprint on India's culture or history, India and Pakistan continue to fight over the Kashmir today.
"When Alexander saw the breadth of his domain, he wept for there were no more worlds to conquer.". If he wept it is because he knew there was a great, rich world across the Indus to conquer and his soldiers were not going to let him take it.