Did Cleitus deserve to be killed?

[jan]

When Cleitus was killed by Alexander, it was due to his having referred to Phillip, his father, once too many times. After all, even though Cleitus had saved Alexander's life, did he have to remind Alexander that his father had developed the army that Alexander now managed?

[D.HATGISTAVROU]

I DON'T THINK HE DESERVED TO DIE.ALEXANDER WAS DRUNK WHEN HE KILLED CLEITUS. IF HE WAS SOBER, MAYBE A GOOD HAND TO HAND FIGHT WOULD HAVE SUFFICED.REGARDS,DIMITRIOS.

[marcus]

On the other hand, had Cleitus been sober, he probably wouldn't have antagonised Alexander so much.Cleitus certainly didn't deserve to be killed, even for what he said; but in the heat of the moment, and considering both parties were drunk... and the fact that they had all been under a tremendous amount of stress while campaigning in Bactria and Sogdia for the best part of a year, it is hardly surprising that it happened... and with a good lawyer Alexander could probably get off the charge (or at least get a much reduced sentence).All the bestMarcus

[agesilaos]

Of course, he didn't need a defence lawyer, the Army declared Cleitos a traitor and therefore pricked down to die! Despite this Alexander clearly thought he did not deserve to die or he would not have beensent into such a paroxysm of guilty remorse. Were I defending I would not put him on the stand. : )

[jan]

LO!:-)I like that one! Thanks.

[jan]

Possibly Zeus whispered into the ears of the men that Alexander was not at fault. I wonder at why in all the author's imaginations they fail to introduce the number of times that the gods and goddesses intervene, and save all their skins.

[ruthaki]

I agree with Marcus's reply. I don't think it would have happened if they hadn't been drunk and stressed out. And I believe Alexander was truly penitent when he realized what he had done. A 'crime' of passion.

[Linda]

Although there is the Curtius argument that this act effectively silenced a lot of potential opposition to Alexander - accidental or not. Is there such a thing as a true accident? I wonder if there were those who stoof by and let Alexander become so enraged because they wanted to see Cleitus out-of-favour. Or was it just a brawl?

[pam]

A little *deus ex machina* sounds like a mistake for a writer of HISTORICAL fiction who wants to be taken seriously.

[Linda]

What, like Homer?:)Linda

[juan]

Tell that to Sophocles, Euripedes, Aeschylus, and any other of their forgotten contemporaries when you meet in Hades. Aristotle may have written some great rules, but then he did not have to stick to them.. Look at what happened to Racine and co. when they tried - dull or what. Gimme Shakespeare, handkerchiefs, mechanicals, and d e m-¦s -¦n-¦all.

[amyntoros]

Hello:I'm a British expat living in New York and have been following the postings on the forum for some time now, but have rarely posted myself. (I feel like a bit of an outsider all the way over here and a little envious of what is obviously a great "community" of admirers of Alexander!) I just started to try and build a collection of Plutarch's Moralia, but as the volumes are so expensive I'm only buying the books second hand. I was lucky to find a copy of Volume I and Plutarch has something to say about the Cleitus affair.In a very long chapter called How To Tell A Flatterer From A Friend, after a discourse on being careful about the use of frank speech toward a friend before a large company, he says: "And least of all is it decent to expose a husband in the hearing of his wife, and a father in the sight of his children, and a lover in the presence of his beloved, or a teacher in the presence of his students: for such persons are driven almost insane with grief and anger at being taken to task before those with whom they feel it is necessary to stand well. I imagine also that it was not so much the wine that caused Cleitus to be so exasperating to Alexander, as that he gave the impression of trying to curb him before a large company."Earlier in the chapter Plutarch names a group of flatters around Alexander: Medius, Hagno, Bagoas, Agesias, and Demetrius, and more or less blames them for what happened to Callisthenes, Parmenio and Philotas. Now I know Bagoas, of course, and obviously Plutarch didn't like him, but I've never heard of any of the others before. I know its not really relevant to this topic, except that they might have been present when Cleitus was killed, but I was wondering if anyone else has found mention of them in other sources?

[pam]

Whoa! I didn't expect such passion.
But..all of the afore mentioned (Homer, Sophocles, etc.) were not writing for a 21st century, often jaded, audience with too many resources. Literature defines "deus ex machina" as "a contrived and artificial ending". It seems to me the realm of fantasy...not *serious* historical fiction.
My apologies if I have offended, it is , after all just an opinion.
Also, for the record...i don't intend to go to hell, even limbo to visit Homer and company.

[jan]

Well, Linda, I am so happy that you have posted a message and introduced yourself. I really enjoyed your post and explanation. It helped a lot. Thanks, and good luck in your collection. Fantastic!

[amyntoros]

Hello Jan, and thanks for the welcome. I've bought four volumes of the Moralia so far and am definitely enjoying reading them. Every so often, when reading a modern biography of Alexander, I will wonder where the writer found a certain bit of information that isn't in Arrian, Curtius, Diodorus, or Plutarch's Lives. Its fun to find these tidbits in the Moralia, though I'm still looking for a piece on Campaspe!