The Murder of Statiera

[Tre]

Greetings Companions!So what really happened and why?I have my own opinions naturally, but it seems there are a lot of divergent opinions on this on the Forum. In my opinion, it defies logic to believe that Roxane killed Statiera and her sister and/or Parysatis. First off, it assumes far more power than she actually possessed and that Alexander had some of the stupidest men around in power, all asleep at the wheel. One has to consider Alexander's likely state of mind while he was dying. He would have assumed the Persian Royal Family was safe and that Roxane would be the one in danger as she was certainly not high up enough in the pecking order to be of the Royal Family and probably extracted a promise from the generals that she would be protected and that's why she got to live. No doubt they assumed a half-breed child not of the Persian Royal family would not be any competition for them. Arrhideus was too damaged to worry about and besides they dared not touch him for fear of what the army would do if the killed Philip's last offspring. Herakles was a bastard, therefore neither he or his mother was a concern - neither was Ptolemy for that matter, depending on how one feels about his claims to Argead blood. You had to be legitimate to be even considered and yes this pretty much guarantees Arrhideus was legitimate and not the product of a mere dancing girl. The Persian royal family was therefore 'taken care of' but not in the way Alexander intended. Ptolemy was interested in making Perdikkas appear incompetent in his history, but had no interest in pointing a finger at Perdikkas and therefore at himself - after all was he not there? - for what they were certain to know would look really bad on their resume.Therefore I believe Perdikkas along with the generals had the Persian Royal family extirpated to eliminate any potential competition for power - either by birth if Statiera was pregnant which I believe highly likely, or by future marriage into the Royal Family and they certainly didn't put it past each other to try and usurp by marriage, as well they 'killed' the Persian empire by doing so. They had no one to look to for leadership but Macedonians now.As for why Roxane lived so long - many assume it was because she was smart, but frankly no one would have touched her until a final determination was made of what was to become of her son, the last Argead. No one was in a hurry to have that on themselves.Regards,Tre

[Tre]

I should also add of course, Roxane's family was useful in regards to holding a particular frontier which no one had the inclination to fight with at the time

[nick]

Hi Tre -Nice topic. Without having the ambition to solve the issue, I would like to point out that there might be a few disputable assumptions in your question.You wrote:
"First off, it assumes far more power than [Roxane] actually possessed and that Alexander had some of the stupidest men around in power, all asleep at the wheel. [...] Roxane would be the one in danger as she was certainly not high up enough in the pecking order to be of the Royal Family"Studying the Persian empire convinced me that Persian women in the higher circles had far more power than your statement implies. That includes ALL Persian women of noble families, not only those closest to the king. Alexander must not have been stupid: he did not marry a non-entity. Carrying his child and having a tradional network of powerful supporters of her own, there is no evidence to suggest that Roxane was less influential than those dozens of decisive women that we know from Achaemenid history before Alexander's invasion. The suggestion that Alexander's "men" could already have changed this cultural pattern and could have eliminated these aspects of traditional Persian "girl power", might be gender biased. Please check Wieseh+¦fer, Cook, Briant and even Herodotus.You wrote:
"No doubt they assumed a half-breed child not of the Persian Royal family would not be any competition for them.""Not of the Persian Royal family" is a denial of the interlinked family relationships within the Persian empire. More than 200 years of intermarriage had provided Persia with a tight cobweb of family relations that stretched far beyond what is referred to as a "Royal family". There probably was not even a specified boundary of who belonged to the Royal and who did not. In other words: there was no Royal family in the sense as it is presented here. In your post you refer to the "Argead blood" to define the Argead house, but I can not see any evidence that "blood" was the term by which the Persians would define a dynasty. I mean: Darius I and Cyrus the Great did not share a bloodline in the way that you suggest, and still they both were Achaemenid great kings.Also: Roxane's family were not (only) valuable because they guarded the frontier (Persians hardly cared about frontiers anyway), but as a noble family they were closely interlocked with the entire Persian ruling class.Regards -
Nick

[Tre]

Sorry Nick, I disagree. It was Macedonians who controlled the empire and the majority of them had very different ideas about the Persians than their dead King. Nor do I believe Roxane had any power beyond that offered her by the marriage to Alexander and his direct support. I see no evidence to suggest Roxane would ever have been thought to be on par with Statiera or Parysatis by the Macedonians and this is the point of view I am discussing. I also make note that it is what the Macedonians thought about royal blood, not what we read about Ancient Persia that suggests how they may have envisioned it. Alexander was certainly aware of the importance of StatieraGÇÖs bloodline GÇô he as King was marrying the daughter of a King. That was very typically Macedonian. Marry as high as you can get. Ditto Parysatis GÇô hold both lines. It is the Macedonian viewpoint that counts here.RoxaneGÇÖs marriage was on different terms and for different reasons. It does not mean Alexander thought he was marrying a GÇÿnon-entityGÇÖ, in fact he would not have bothered if that were the case, but the marriage was necessary because of the support the clan could offer him in quieting the region. I do not at any time think Alexander ever thought Roxane was on par in importance to Statiera however. That was the important marriage. Very typically Alexander. And leave no loose ends by marrying Parysatis. There is no suggestion in the histories of RoxaneGÇÖs character beyond she was beautiful, possibly ruthless (if one believes she alone somehow arranged the murder of Statiera and others) and terribly unlucky because her husband died young. I rather doubt she had a support network that exceeded the power of AlexanderGÇÖs generals. And it was Statiera, her sister and Parysatis they feared, not Roxane. ThatGÇÖs why they died and she didnGÇÖt. Roxane being kept alive served purposes GÇô it kept the army quiet GÇô after all she was present before them and pregnant with their dead KingGÇÖs child and no one wanted to rile the army up for any reason at that critical time, she might be carrying a girl if they got lucky, and her family was useful to them. StatieraGÇÖs family was not GÇô it presented a danger that could threaten their rule. I think you make an assumption that because I speak of the way the Macedonians thought of the situation in that time that I am implying women were not worthy. That is very far from the case and as far as being gender biased in my thoughts that is interesting consid

[Tre]

I think you make an assumption that because I speak of the way the Macedonians thought of the situation in that time that I am implying women were not worthy. That is very far from the case and as far as being gender biased in my thoughts that is interesting considering my very gender.BTW crime investigation is one of my areas of expertise :-)Regards,Tre

[susan]

Hi Tre
What an intersting topic, I can't wait to get my teeth into it. I'm busy till tomorrow evening, but I'm putting together some thoughts. Susan

[ruthaki]

Roxana's family geneology included a link to the wife of the Great Darius. Thus she was 'royalty'.
There isn't any doubt in my mind that she was a willing conspirator in the murder of the Princesses. After all, Stateira was a major rival.
Roxana was pregant, and no way would she let her child loose out on the inheritance. Undoubtedly Perdikkas and/or other generals were in on the plot as well.

[nick]

Hi Tre -We have had different viewpoints before in this respect - and now again. My main objection is that your analysis does not acknowledge the social and political position (power, importance) of women in ancient Achaemenid Persia.As Alexander copied much of the Persian system of administration (satrapies) to rule his new empire, the old Persian system of running the realm was still a factor to be reckoned with at the time of his death. The quick Macedonian conquest did not eliminate Persian girl power within the blink of an eye. Yes, it is very amusing that we both seem to be gender biased the other way round. (I - as a Dutch citizen - quite like that.)In my point of view you treat Roxane, Stateira, Sisygambis as if they were Western women (Greek, Macedonian, American... ?). I love Beth Carney's book, but still believe her interpretation is limited because of her American cultural values. Gert-Jan Hofstede (the son of famous scientist Geert Hofstede) pointed out to me (last year, during a long telephone talk) that modern Iran is still far more "feminine" in its cultural values than popular views would want us to believe (segregation, seclusion).We can not have of proper judgement of Roxane's role without studying the feminine aspects of ancient Persia. Wieseh+¦fer, Cook and Briant are a great help, but primary sources should be studied as well. Recent surveys point out that the modern USA is one of the most "masculine" cultures of our present world. What a great contradiction with the old feminine Achaemenids...With respect -
Nick

[nick]

Hi Ruth -Nice. Can you please tell me: what source reveals the link between Roxane and the 'house' of Darius (the Great?). I would really like to dig in to that source.Thank you very much -
Nick

[susan]

Yes, it would be very interesting to have some more information on this - are they Persian sources ?I've looked at this subject a little, and I know that Roxane's family names are similar to those of Darius the Great's family, but I haven't seen any proof that they were actually related. Roxane means 'shining star' which is the type of name that would be fairly common for a girl, I would expect. From memory I recall that Darius the Great's mother was named Roxane, and his father Histanes.
I believe that Roxane was an aristocrat rather than royal - Curtius mentions Roxane's 'humble pedigree in comparison with royalty' (8:4:23) and the other sources imply something similar.

If she had been royal, I think this would have been mentioned in the sources either at the time of marriage or in the arguments after Alexander's death, when her son's suitability as heir was discussed. The marriage was not popular with the Macedonians, yet it was not portrayed as political, which it would have been if she was of sufficient rank. On the other hand, it may be that the sources did not understand her pedigree, particularly if it was on the female side.
Incidentally, Roxane's doctor was Hippocrates, related to the famous Hippocrates of the Hippocratic oath that doctors still use - he died at the hands of Cassander - it's in the online Suda.
Susan

[Tre]

Hi Nick:I didn't get what I'm saying from Carney's book, far from it, and in fact if pushed, I would say I disagree with many of her theories, although I appreciate her scholarship and contributions, particularly in the area of Olympias.However, I'm not taking a step back. Don't forget much of the sources on Ancient Persia considered Persian men to be like women so the reverse was also displayed, therefore, the women had to be strong and powerful, because the men were lacking. Persia had to be 'different' from the 'correct' West, they were barbarians. Strong and powerful from a Western conception of course. Mama always said the hand that rocks the cradle rules the world - but that is a nescient view too I'm afraid.This has absolutely nothing to do with my view of women's importance in history and in fact, what I have theorized has absolutely nothing to do with the importance of women Ancient Persia up until that time. What it has to do with is the Macedonian generals who controlled the empire, their view of royalty, which is the one that counted and the murder of Statiera. It's their viewpoint that counts because they were the victors and they changed history at this particular moment and one could make a point not necessarily for the better.The Persian Royal females were dead and the lucky females were humiliated by divorce. That speaks all one needs to know about how most (not all) of the Macedonians viewed things and they were in the position to make it happen. So they controlled that bit of history.As for Roxane, how best can I put it? She was a woman without a city, perhaps. I'm also not representing Roxane's view of herself either. But you'd be hard pressed to prove to me that after her husband's death she was anything more than a well treated captive of Alexander's men awaiting whatever her fate was to be.I've yet to see a credible argument for how Roxane could have managed the elimination of Statiera and others without the generals.Would you like to present one? That is the point of my post - who and why.Regards,TreP.S. I'll even let the awful 'girl power' slide

[Tre]

BTW I'd be curious what you think a feminine cultural value is (be very careful here :-)as opposed to a male cultural value, but it's off topic for the Forum.And if I didn't make it crystal clear, I am expressing the perps point of view of the murder of Statiera, no one else's.Regards,Tre I won't comment on the American remarks.

[susan]

Before we discuss the motives, maybe it would be useful if we can agree on the facts. IGÇÖve made a list of who was where at the time of AlexanderGÇÖs death. If anyone knows any more can they add to this ?1. Roxane GÇô in Babylon. Who was with her ? Probably not her father Oxyartes , who was governor of the Paropamisidae; probably her brother Histanes who was made an officer in a squadron of mounted cavalry in 324, but not in charge of it.2. Stateira GÇô either in Babylon or travelling there. She had been at Susa with her grandmother Sisygambis, her sister Drypetis (HephaestionGÇÖs widow) and her brother, whose name isnGÇÖt given. CurtiusGÇÖ account shows Sisygambis hearing of AlexanderGÇÖs death when she was sitting with Drypetis and her brother; presumably Statiera had already left for Babylon, summoned in AlexanderGÇÖs name by Roxane. Sisygambis refused food and water and died after 5 days.3. Parysatis GÇô I think Parysatis was murdered with Statiera, rather than Drypetis. Parysatis was the youngest daughter of Artaxerxes Ochus; I think she was the only surviving child. She had been at Susa with Sisygambis and Statiera.4. Other members of the Royal family GÇô Darius' brother Oxathres was still alive, the only one of SisygambisGÇÖ seven children ; his daughter Amastris was with Craterus. 5. Barsine & Heracles - were they at Babylon too ? none of the accounts mention them.
Plutarch is the only source that mentions the murder; Curtius and Diodorus both refer to SisygambisGÇÖ death. It is a bit surprising that Curtius does not mention the murder as this seemed the sort of drama he relished. No more is heard of any of the Persian royals apart from Amastris, who was elsewhere. Her later marriages showed that marrying into the Persian royal family was still a political bonus.Now for some speculation
------------------------
I find something slightly odd in the accounts of SisygambisGÇÖ death GÇô she was the only protector of her young grandchildren, one of whom was probably pregnant, she knew what was likely to happen and yet she chose to die. I think she knew that they were going to be put to death, in which case it would be an organised killing, rather than a one-off by Roxane. This implies that some of the generals must have been implicated.
Regards
Susan

[ruthaki]

I've got a truck-load of notes and books for my research over the past 12 years so as soon as I can sort through and find the time I'll check out those sources regarding Roxana. I've read it in a few places. I believe that the link to Darius the Great's wife comes through Roxana's mother. They seem to have been 'distant relatives'. Thanks for those Persian links, Susan. Haven't had time to check them out yet but I certainly will.

[Tre]

hello Susan:I've never believed the story of Sisygambis' death - just a bit too romantic for my tastes.I think it likely Drypetis was also eliminated along with the males of the clan - they were too dangerous to leave alive. An Argead would have done same within his own clan fearing retribution.The only person who could have summoned Statiera outside of her direct family and Alexander was Perdikkas. He had the ring and the defacto position to do so in his name or that of the King. Although there is a possibility Alexander had the Persian Royals and wives summoned knowing he was going to die for the Macedonians to make disposition on his heirs. One has to remember, Macedonian Kings didn't get to pick their heirs for the most part - this was an extraordinary case. That they would go so far as to pick someone who was mentally defective in some manner because he was a male Argead, suggests they wanted to go back to the old ways, which were not kind to Persians, particularly those who they felt had a potential legitimate claim to the Kingship.Barsine was probably in Babylon as Nearchus made an attempt to get Herakles recognized and he was passed over being illegitimate and at the time, therefore safe. Alexander clearly had no intention of putting him in a position as an heir because he never attempted to make Herakles legitimate, nevermind she had other sons that would have had a very interesting status if he married her. Regards,Tre