influence women had on alexander

[Melissa]

Hi, im doing my a2 coursework on alexander. I've got to write about how much influence women had on Alexander im not sure which women i should focus on, im looking at his mother and wife but am stuck on who else. I would also appreciate it if you could give me a few ideas as to how they influenced him as i am failing miserably and have not found much so far. anyway better go and search the net for more information. Please help!
Luv melissa x x )

[ruthaki]

Of course, his mother Olympias was an important person in his life. She tried her best to run it for him, but he resisted, went far away from home, but even then her letters followed him and she was always ready to meddle in his affairs. When he married Roxane, the Soghdian, it was said she bore similarities in temperment to his mother (most notably her temper tantrums). She was also reputedly a great beauty. The Persian wife, Stateira, was a powerful political union and Alexander was greatly influenced by her grandmother Sisigambis. He had great respect for women and wouldn't allow his men to commit rape or punished them if they did. His 'affair' with Barsine, an older woman who he captured, was the woman who it is said taught him how to 'love'. They had one son, Herakles, but the boy was never recognized as he was illegitimate. There were a number of women throughout Alexander's compaigns who had some influence on him, or at least who he was impressed and intrigued by. One was Queen Ada. I think a few of the other members might have more detail about her. Then of course there was the 'romance' story about him and the Amazon woman. Some of the stories are likely just 'legend' though. For all the influnece the women had over him, his favorite companion was his friend Hephaestion, a man.

[susan]

We don't really know anything about Roxane - certainly not that she had temper tantrums. This was speculation and novel-writing on Mary Renault's part - she portrayed her as having a fiery temper. The only reference to her character in the sources refer to her dignity and beauty; I think it unlikely that she masterminded the murder of Stateira & Parysatis herself, and there is very little other evidence of her character. She must have been fairly shrewd to survive for as long as she did.Susan

[marcus]

I agree, Susan. Also, I'm not sure where the sources say that Barsine was the one who taught Alexander how to love - it sounds suspiciously like romantic fiction, and not the sort of thing any of the ancient sources would have written (or, more particularly, cared about). I might be wrong, but someone will have to give me a reference.In my mind, the only three women who can really be included in this essay are Olympias, Sisygambis and Ada of Caria. Even then, there isn't much that can be deduced from Alexander's relationship with Ada, but there are very specific instances where we can see how he humoured Sisygambis - refraining from massacring an entire tribe on the strength of her pleas for clemency.All the bestMarcus

[Linda]

It seems a peculiar question to set; I am not sure what conclusions could be drawn...one additional person to mention would be Ptolomy's mistress Thais, who allegedly encouraged Alexander to burn Persopolis in retaliation for what the ersians (Xerxes?) had done to the Greeks. Obviously not a long-term influence on his life, but as a one-off, quite spectacular. Marcus, Plutarch says in his life of Alexander that Barsine was the only woman Alexander had sexual relations with before his marriage. I don't think he says "taught him to love", or whatever...that does seem a romantic interpretation, although I have seen that written somewhere in a biography or something.

[agesilaos]

In an effort to extend your essay one could speculate on the influence of his step-mothers and his sisters.
Alexander had ties of friendship with the Agrianoi and one of Philip's wives was Illyrian,Audata by whom he had Kyanne-Eurydice, so maybe he had an in via her (although there are plenty of other routes to an Illyrian alignment).
Philip's last wife Kleopatra-Eurydike definitely affected him causing a breach with his father and indirectly his acession when Philip is murdered trying to bring Alexander back on board but cut Olympias out.
Naturaly due to the inevitable phallo-centricity of the sources it is difficult to extrapolate the influence of these minor players. Even his wives come across as little more than political cyphers.I agree with everyone that Olympias is the dominant influence and his prediliction for the company of older women seeems to be an attempt to find a surrogate, even to the extent that he calls Sisigambis 'mother'.
Unlike Marcus though I do think Roxane murdered Staeira her unborn child and Parysatis, it is in the sources and the only other suspect would be Perdikkas and the sources are generally against him, so if there was a chance of setting this crime at his door I'm sure they would have.

[marcus]

Karl,You must have me mixed up with somebody else - I have no view as to whether Roxane was or wasn't responsible for the deaths of Stateira and Parysatis. :-)However, as the murder(s) took place after Alexander's death, they have only a minor relevance to the essay (inasmuch as they give us an idea of Roxane's character, *if* she did indeed kill the princesses); but any comment about Roxane's influence on Alexander, based on that incident, remains pure speculation, and therefore should not occupy more than a footnote in the essay :-)All the bestMarcus

[marcus]

Hi Linda,Thanks for the Plutarch reference. Still, I think we agree that Barsine being the first (female) lover Alexander had doesn't mean the same as her "teaching him to love". I'm in two minds about Thais. I agree that she should be considered, but this was one isolated incident - and, while she certainly appears to have influenced him to burn the palace (purportedly), it hasn't much to do with the influencing of his character etc... which is what I understand the question to be. Now, one could argue that there isn't enough about Ada or even Sisygambis to include them on that basis; but I think there would be, because those two were mother figures (one very explicitly)... perhaps their inclusion in the essay would be about how Olympias' influence on Alexander dictated how he treated them?All the bestMarcus

[David Symes]

Alexander's alleged comment to the effect that he paid a high price in rent, referring to the debts Olympias made him feel toward her in exchange for her having carried him in her womb for nine months, provides much food for thought regarding the effect that Olympias had on him.

[susan]

I do sometimes wonder to what extent the Perisan royal family was matrilineal - ie the right to the throne passed through the woman. Certainly this would account for the importance that the Persian royal women seemed to have, and how often they appear in Alexander's history. If this is the case, it would shed new light on
- the presence of the royal women at the battles, which otherwise seems unreasonable
- Darius' marriage to his sister
- the high ransom Darius was prepared to pay for his family
- Alexander's respect for the royal family
Certaibly Persian royal women seemed to have been quite prominent in their own right.Susan

[jan]

No matter which woman had the most influence on him as it is probably his mother, his attitude toward the women of Darius's court is what impresses me about his appreciation and respect of women of high rank. He treated them with courtesy and paid them the honor that was due to their station in life.So where he had learned this attitude is one of conjecture as it may have been inborn as well as simply taught. Perhaps his belief in Achilles may have influenced him as well.

[jan]

Hi Ruth, I have finished reading all the excerpts on Shadow of a Lion, and enjoyed it so much I want to know where I can find a published copy. I especially love the way you handle young Iksander, as I like the use of ointments and honey for the smells. I tried to get a message posted but some editor has seen fit for me to write this note instead. Your treatment of the halfwit brother is rather astonishing. I really enjoy your vivid imagination and the years of research and travel. You know your subject so well and it shows. A great read for me. I hope to find it in its entirety so that I can understand your years of experience on the subject.

[davej]

Elizabeth Carney works on Macedonian Women would be your best source, particularly on Olympias. From left field you might want to look into Alexander wet nurse (I cant remember her name). She had some influence on him as well. I remember something vaguely Marcus or Karl might know. I don't think Barsine or Roxane really had any influence over Alexander, he was a typical male of his age. I dont think any women other then his mother held any influence over him. Sorry girls.

[ruthaki]

Hi Janet (and others) I have done literally years of research for my novel "Shadow of the Lion" and no, not just by reading Renault's books. I have researched in local libraries as well as the Gennadius in Athens and the British School Library in Athens and have contact with several classical scholars who are experts on the subject. Renault (like me) was not writing a history book but 'historical fiction'. As an author we can take our research and choose which way we wish to interpret that character based on what we find out. I read a number of accounts of Roxana's notorious temperment, the fact she had a hand in the death of the princesses (Just as Olympias likely had something to do with Arridaios condition and Philip's assassination.) All of the women in Alexander's life have been developed in various stages and given a 'voice' in my novel. Including Barsine. None of us living today (or even a hundred years after his death such as Plutarch) can really know what went on. So as a historical fiction writer I have formed my own opinions as accurately as I can from the rheams of research I've done.
Sorry, Janet, the book isn't quite finished (soon though) and although I had one offer from a Greek publisher I had to turn it down as they wanted me to pay half the publishing costs. So you'll have to wait for the print copy. Glad you enjoyed the excerpts. I read the one about the Magus at a small group reading today and have been asked to come on a radio program to read more. Blatant self promotion. But that's what one must do to be heard.
Thanks again, and also to other who have taken time to read and comment. Oh, by the way, the nurse's name was Lanike and I believe she was a sister of Black Cleitus.

[marcus]

Ruth, At the risk of being picky, there is far too much propaganda around for us to form any conclusions about whether Olympias had anything whatsoever to do with Arrhidaios' condition (if, indeed, there was anything at all the matter with him), let alone having a hand in Philip's death.And Plutarch wasn't a hundred years after Alexander, he was four to five hundred years after Alexander. His sources were a hotchpotch, including a number of blatant sensationalists, and we have to be extremely careful when evaluating anything that he has to say. (One could also add that he was writing biography, not history, which was a very different discipline, and required far less historical accuracy than it required stories to exemplify the point the biographer was trying to make.)All the bestMarcus