venni vetti vecci

[matthew]

does anyone know where this saying came from I was told it means I came, I saw, I conquered. is this true and does anyone know who said it. thanks for any help.

[maciek]

veni vidi vici
I came I saw I conquered!
Shame on me I can't remember just now who said it but I have some uncleare feeling that it was said by Julius Caesar in Galia. My favourite sentence was "Alea jacta est!" and it was for sure Julius Caesar's words. Maciek

[davej]

Yes definiatly was crested to Caesar. although others may have said it. I would not translate it as I came, I saw, I conquered. The Roman prided themsleves on the concise nature of their language. An off handed contemptuous cam, saw conquered would be more to the point. I beleive he said it on his return from Britain, becuase it was pretty much awaste of time.Anybody want the bonus points for what his last words were?they are most likely not those so damously penned by Shakespear, so et tu bruti will not do. A hint is they were most likely Greek.Oh and for the comedians they were not "you bastards stop stabbing me: aw oooh aw aw ouch, stop that. it hurts".

[nick]

Yes, Caesar, in 47 BC at Zela (Asia Minor) after the battle with Pharnaces II of Pontus. Nice detail: the kingdom of Pontus (Greek court language) promoted itself as the last surviving empire of Alexander's diadochi - the last stronghold of Hellenism.See my article:
http://www.ianm.clara.net/html/veni_vidi_vici.htmlNow back to Alexander.Regards -
Nick

[susa]

Let me see....'whom the gods love die young'?

[marcus]

Hi Nick,Before we get back to Alexander... :-)I'm intrigued by your statement that Pontus promoted itself as the last Hellenistic kingdom - if it was defeated by Caesar in 47BC, and Egypt carried on as an independent kingdom ruled by direct descendents of Ptolemy until 30BC, how could Pontus make such a claim? Or was it just a PR piece?All the bestMarcus

[marcus]

Hi Dave,Doesn't Plutarch say that Caesar's last words were "and you, too, my son?" (can't remember how to decline 'filius' in this case so I won't try to render it in Latin); as opposed to "et tu, Brute?"Still, even that is likely to be poetic licence - the fact is that Caesar was surrounded by men who were busy turning him into a lawn sprinkler, and they are likely to have been the only people who heard his final words; and at the same time he pulled his toga over his head, so any words would have been muffled. The chances that any of them listened and retained what those were are slim, and they certainly won't have gone around telling people what they were. All the bestMarcusPS: The best "Famous last words" are those of William Pitt, anyway: "I think I could eat one of Bellamy's veal pies"; and the suicide note that just said "all that buttoning and unbuttoning". Class!

[nick]

Hi Marcus -Fair enough. You are right - Cleopatra held out until 30 BC - so Egypt should deserve to be regarded as the last surviving remnant of the Hellenistic world.What the difference might have been is that Egypt was more or less busy with a struggle to keep its independance, whilst Pontus (Mithridates, Pharnaces' father) fostered a policy of expansion and had been actively trying to push back the Romans in a final, full scale attempt to restore the former glory of the kingdoms of Hellenism. E.g. the invasion of Greece in 86 BC and the battle of Chaeronea. I would argue that Pontus was Rome's last, formidable military opponent with roots back to the Diadochi. It is written that Mithridates cultivated his image as 'the champion [or the saviour] of Hellenism'.But I admit, my original mail was taking one shortcut too fast.Regards -
Nick

[agesilaos]

You might argue that since Rome in the form of Gabinius re-established Ptolemy XII Auletes Egypt had become a client state by 55 BC.

[davej]

I read an article recently. I don't recall the author. However I do recall the basis of the article. It claims that Caesars last words were kai su (GK) Appearently it was more or less like saying up yours. It was a popular off handed insult at the time for the Roman aristocracy.

[yiannis]

Kai su (si) in Greek means "you too?"
I find it highly unlikely that it means "up yours" in latin :-)Yiannis

[davej]

Yiannis,I am well aware that Kai Su is Greek. That is why when I originally posted I aked if anybody knew Caesar's last words in Greek. It is also why I add the (GK) after kai su in my post, as the forum does not support Greek characters. I should have included teknon, which would have been a give away. I re-read the article last night. It had long been a tradition to say something poignant when dying, "oh what a Roman dies in me" or "oh what a Artist dies in me". Or my favourate "lets take the shorter route through that woods over there" Varro. Caesar Spoke Greek and Latin and was aimimg at something cutting and poignant to Brutus. Hence "and you, son" which had a double meaning in slang as #$#& you too son.

[yiannis]

I'm just wondering if Julius (or anyone else) would say: "Kai si teknon Vroute" when he was dying or simply "argggh!"
There are many famous last words wondering around and I believe that most of them are attributed to the departed ones long after their death.Dialogue:
-"Prisoner, do you have any famous last words to say before we execute you?"
-"Not yet!"
-"Not yet? Is that famous?"Now tell me, which film does this scene come from?regards,
Yiannis

[marcus]

Yiannis,You gave away a big clue when you added "Monty Python" to the subject header... tsk tsk.Still, as Nick would say: "back to Alexander..." :-)All the bestMarcus

[yiannis95]

Marcus, I meant from which movie...