Alexander's "Spartan" upbringing (split from "

[jan]

and small when he omitted the Lacedonians from his plaque which he sent to all of Greece, bragging upon his latest conquest and victory? I always wonder about his deliberate intent since the Spartans were the only city that would not submit to his reign and rule. Yet he seems to more Spartanlike at times than the Spartans in his lifestyle. But his excluding the Spartans so deliberately seems petty to me. Rubbing it in...or did it have a different tone than that?

[Paralus]

Yet he seems to more Spartanlike at times than the Spartans in his lifestyle. But his excluding the Spartans so deliberately seems petty to me. Rubbing it in...or did it have a different tone than that?

It (the dedication of the armor) was conceived in the spirit of the panhellenist propaganda of the invasion. Alexander had little interest, as his father before him, in forcing Sparta - and insignificant Peloponnesian prick in his big toe - to submit. The slight indicated just how Alexander saw Sparta.

My, somewhat more cynical, view would be that Alexander, likely well aware of his Xenophon, unlike Thibron, Dercylidas and especially Agesilaos before him, entered into no discussions or treaties with the Satraps of Asia Minor and, instead, sent home the spoils he had captured in defeating the Persians in battle to drive the point home.

Perhaps he took pleasure in spiting Sparta having bested her erstwhile ally and banker in the field?

Alexander “Spartan-like”? He seems most un-Spartan to me. Gods! Most Spartans will have suffered and died of gastronomically induced disease on the decidedly un-Spartan diet of Alexander and his court!

“Cleomenes! Boy! Remove these game birds, venison, sturgeon and assorted meats; the fine wines as well. Fetch me my melas zomos (black gruel) before I set the Krypteria upon the cooks!”

[athenas owl]

Paralus..you cynical?

I agree on your take though, completely. It was a very "laconic" snub at that.

Though, I think, about the diet, Jan may be thinking of ATG's response to Ada sending him all those sweetmeats and sauces...something about night marches for breakfast and breakfast for dinner.

[Paralus]

Paralus..you cynical?

Paralus + cynical = Oxymoron……Another Alexander romantic that's me…

Though, I think, about the diet, Jan may be thinking of ATG's response to Ada sending him all those sweetmeats and sauces...something about night marches for breakfast and breakfast for dinner.

Yes, I too thought of that. It was much more fun thinking of Alexander calling for his gruel though. Best, though, not to consider Greek mercenaries as Helots and let’s not go near what he might or might not have got up to in the Agoge….

[athenas owl]

Calling for his gruel from his golden Persian throne! It was a fun imagry.

Love that song, it was nice to hear it again, esp. with the vid. Thx.

[jan]

I read that he ate very little...and it has always made me wonder. IN the first book that I ever read that caught my attention, at how he had such a stringent diet, and while it is true that he rejected all the sweets that his motherAda sent to him, it was on the subject of his regular diet that I had in mind...it has always perplexed me to read that he ate very small amounts of food.

I also meant his austere upbringing as Leonidas was so cruel to him, not ever allowing him any desserts or sweets, and throwing them out if his mother secreted them into him.

Poor Alexander, he has had a rough go of it, hasn't he? But it made him big and strong...I wonder if all this could really be some kind of morality lesson after all.

[athenas owl]

Poor Alexander, he has had a rough go of it, hasn't he? But it made him big and strong...I wonder if all this could really be some kind of morality lesson after all.

It might have made him strong, certainly tough, but I don't know that it made him big.

Renault, in one of her books (they all blend without looking), conjectured that the very Spartan diet that Leonidas imposed on him actually retarded his growth. Don't neccessarliy agree, but it was interesting. But then I recall reading somewhere (I have way too many bookmarks) that one of his ancestors had the nickname Amyntas the Short so he may just have come by it honestly.

[Paralus]

Evidently Antipater refused to leave Macedon because, since Alex's departure, he and the other nobility had resumed their copious consumption of butchered and bar-b-qued game. He’d absolutely no desire to resume sumptuous banquets of melas zomos with his Spartan king.

Ptolemy too wasted no time in scarpering to the gormandiser’s paradise of Egypt where he no doubt piled perch upon peacock, washed down with fine Pharaonic wine, in an attempt to escape memories of the court’s gruel-fests such as the one in Susa occasioning the death of some forty-two individuals (yes, the sources have assumed wine rather than gruel here).

Whilst it is difficult to prove from the evidence, it is highly likely that Antigonus gained his corpulent shape after the departure of his gruel-consuming Laconian liege to the east.

Any wonder Alexander drank. Something had to brighten up his Spartan existence and turn his wandering eyes from the flesh (filled) pots of Persian intestinal intemperance.

Alexander most likely died of an alcohol related illness due in large part to poor nutrition.

"Cleomenes! Another round of melas zomos for the companions! Now boy!!"

---------

"Ok, now....where's everyone gone?'

[Efstathios]

Nah. I dont think so. He was a casual drinker. In order to get an illness from too much alcohol one has to drink large quantities every day. Alexander may have drank a lot some times during fests e.t.c, but probably it doesnt lead to an illness from alcohol.

Bad nutrition, yes. In conjuction with probable deseases around the places he went to, and his body having taken many wounds, could lead to an illness.

By the way Michael, i opened the Shiraz. It was excellent. Cheers!

[Paralus]

By the way Michael, i opened the Shiraz. It was excellent. Cheers!

I'm glad to hear it Stathi. Enjoy.

I have that habit.....opening bottles of shiraz. Problem is, it is often in the plural and corks rarely go back in. Nor do they need to.

The stories surrounding Alexander's alcohol habit(s) say that, as a youngin', he seemed to eschew the stuff. Perhaps it was his discovery of that magnificent shiraz of the Persian plateau that saw him go from being a rather abstemious bugger to a proper bugger for the bottle.

It certainly has that effect on my good self!


Cleitus the Black guzzled too many back
And was run through at the table.
Attalos, Attalos got full with malice
And was removed via private cable.

Callisthenes, pie-eyed and at ease
Proskenysis he wasn't able

And Hephaestion tied one too many on
And was just as dead as Darius

There's nothing Perdiccas couldn't teach us
'Bout the raising of the wrist.
Alexander, himself, a symposium he rarely missed.

Loose lipped Philotas, full as the Eurotas,
On a half baked conspiracy he did depart us.

Parmenio, they say, drank amphorae every day--
Half through a message, they put him away.

Aristotle, Aristotle was a bugger for the bottle.
Craterus was fond of his krater,

And Ptolemy son of Lagos, the drunken strategos.
'I drink, I’m a Macedone.'

Yes, Alexander, himself, is particularly missed,
A tactical little thinker,
A murderous bugger when he's pissed.

[marcus]

Cleitus the Black guzzled too many back
And was run through at the table.
Attalos, Attalos got full with malice
And was removed via private cable.

Callisthenes, pie-eyed and at ease
Proskenysis he wasn't able

And Hephaestion tied one too many on
And was just as dead as Darius

There's nothing Perdiccas couldn't teach us
'Bout the raising of the wrist.
Alexander, himself, a symposium he rarely missed.

Loose lipped Philotas, full as the Eurotas,
On a half baked conspiracy he did depart us.

Parmenio, they say, drank amphorae every day--
Half through a message, they put him away.

Aristotle, Aristotle was a bugger for the bottle.
Craterus was fond of his krater,

And Ptolemy son of Lagos, the drunken strategos.
'I drink, I’m a Macedone.'

Yes, Alexander, himself, is particularly missed,
A tactical little thinker,
A murderous bugger when he's pissed.

Masterly, my good sir.

ATB

[athenas owl]

Completely off topic, except for the alcohol bit...

Back in the late 70's and the 80's, there was a thing called "joint venture" in commercial fishing on the west coast. American boats would catch and then sell to Bulgarians, Poles, Koreans, Japanese..and the Russians.. on their big processing ships.

Mind you, this was during the "Cold War" and the Russkies were our enemies. Well, I like to think that detente was actually reached somewhere in the Bering Sea in one of the many "symposiums" aboard an American or Russian vessel, fueled by copious amounts of Stoli. (How do you think Stoli's got so popular!). Nothing more harmonious than a Russian and American crew literally drinking themselves under the galley table...concord! Once the translators were well toasted, well... A shared understanding and mutual hangover...

[Paralus]

Completely off topic, except for the alcohol bit

Oooh….not sure of that. How off topic is….

Cleitus the Black guzzled too many back
And was run through at the table.

Or this….

Loose lipped Philotas, full as the Eurotas,
On a half baked conspiracy he did depart us.
Parmenio, they say, drank amphorae every day--
Half through a message, they put him away

‘Bout as topical as one might get I’d think.

[karen]

Cleitus the Black guzzled too many back
And was run through at the table.
Attalos, Attalos got full with malice
And was removed via private cable.

Callisthenes, pie-eyed and at ease
Proskenysis he wasn't able
And Hephaestion tied one too many on
And was just as dead as Darius

There's nothing Perdiccas couldn't teach us
'Bout the raising of the wrist.
Alexander, himself, a symposium he rarely missed.

Loose lipped Philotas, full as the Eurotas,
On a half baked conspiracy he did depart us.
Parmenio, they say, drank amphorae every day--
Half through a message, they put him away.

Aristotle, Aristotle was a bugger for the bottle.
Craterus was fond of his krater,
And Ptolemy son of Lagos, the drunken strategos.
'I drink, I’m a Macedone.'

Yes, Alexander, himself, is particularly missed,
A tactical little thinker,
A murderous bugger when he's pissed.

This is frigging BRILLIANT, Paralus!

Funniest thing I've read in weeks.

BRAVO!!!!