Looking For The Humor....

[Lisa]

Hi Everyone,

I'm new!

What I regret the most about Alexander the Great is that we know so little about his sense of humor. There are anecdotes that speak to his ability to empathize and his kindness (a relative rarity in the ancient world) For example, when he witnessed the Greek slaves that been mutilated by the Persians, supposedly he wept for them, and I'd call that empathy. When Sysigambis attempted to prostrate herself before Hephaestion, he gently made light of the mistake, and I'd call that kindness. The only really funny story I know about Alexander is the quip that his mother charged a high rent for the nine months lodging. Given how crazy one's parents can make you, I'd call his ability to joke about a real sign of sanity. However, I'm not aware of any other insights into his sense of humor. I'm totally guessing that perhaps he joked about the normal things that army guys tend to joke about and I would say that could be the bad food, the long hours, and sex. Any opinions on that? I'm further guessing that sex may have been a bit of a sensitive topic with him sense mommy dearest attempted in vain to set Alexander up with a lovely call girl. Since he hung with a hard drinking crew, maybe there were jokes about how this one acted or how that one acted while completely drunk? Maybe they joked about how rations were so lean they were eating anything they could catch, i.e., squirrels, rabbits, on occasion? Maybe they joked about how effeminate the Persian military were?

[Alita]

Hi Lisa. Welcome.

I'm new too. I don't have my book with me right now, but somewhere Robin Lane Fox in his biography mentions an incident of Alexander's humour, where the latter teases an acquaintance (back in Greece? - sorry, bad memory) about his greed and so sends him a whole barrel of provisions or something. I'll either have to go and have a proper look or maybe someone else on here can provide the details. I know it was somewhere in the beginning of Fox's book.

But I like your topic: I always felt that Alexander had a wicked sense of humour, in spite of his important position. A bit like Queen Elizabeth II today; she doesn't go around cracking jokes but get her alone, like many have, and she reveals a really dry, scintillating wit. I also think people bond easier to a monarch that has a sense of humour and we know Alexander's men adored him. It shows he had the common touch. As for his later life, I don't know; I've heard humour is the first thing to go when pressure, tension and constant fear and uncertainty mount. This could have happened in the latter part of Alexander's campaign, especially when he began demanding to be worshipped as a god. That could have isolated him and put a damper on his humour. Or his men could have had less patience for his humour and not welcomed it. Either way... Kind of sad really...

[karen]

I would guess that most of Alexander's humour with his men would have been the sort of humour you get in armies... about which the less said, probably, the better.

But in the recorded examples he seems to have had a pointed, ironic and sometimes sarcastic wit.

The recipient of the massive gift was his childhood teacher Leonidas, and the criticism wasn't greed, but stinginess. Plutarch recounts it thus:

From [Gaza] he sent great part of the spoils to Olympias, Cleopatra, and the rest of his friends, not omitting his preceptor Leonidas, on whom he bestowed five hundred talents' weight of frankincense and an hundred of myrrh, in remembrance of the hopes he had once expressed of him when he was but a child. For Leonidas, it seems, standing by him one day while he was sacrificing, and seeing him take both his hands full of incense to throw into the fire, told him it became him to be more sparing in his offerings, and not to be so profuse till he was master of the countries which those sweet gums come from. So Alexander now wrote to him, saying, "We have sent you abundance of myrrh and frankincense, that for the future you may not be stingy to the gods."

Then of course there's the famous line delivered when Philip stumbled to the floor after drunkenly drawing his sword on Alexander during a wedding banquet, which was used in the Oliver Stone movie, by the way -- Plutarch again:

Then Philip, taking Attalus's part, rose up and would have run his son through; but by good fortune for them both, either his over-hasty rage, or the wine he had drunk, made his foot slip, so that he fell down on the floor. At which Alexander reproachfully insulted over him: "See there," said he, "the man who makes preparations to pass out of Europe into Asia, overturned in passing from one seat to another."

I doubt Alexander, since he was in pain at the time, was intending to be funny when he was wounded, someone said something about ichor, and he shot back, "Nonsense, you idiot -- it's blood." (My paraphrase.) I've always found it so, though.

The best source for more Alexandrian quips is Plutarch.

Warmly,
Karen

[keroro]

Two little things I always find amusing, someone correct me if I remember wrong:

When Darius' mother mistook Hephaestion for Alexander, Alexander is recorded as saying 'He too is Alexander'. I find this funny personally.

After one of the major battles (can't remember which, probably Granacus) Alexander sent 300 suits of armour to Greece with a note along the lines of 'To the Greeks who have sent forces to battle Persia, and the Spartans who have not, I dedicate this armour' A clear slap in the face for Sparta due to the famous 300 Spartans at Thermopylae. Also extremely funny in my opinion.

I agree with Karen that most of the humour that Alexander shared with his troops would probably not be the kind to grace the Pothos site.

[athenas owl]

I thought it was pretty "funny" when Eumenes was being a tight wad about lending ATG money on the Indus and then his tent was set alit , revealing his 1000 talents.

Phillip had the wit, and while Alexander may have as well, it just doesn't come through in the histories as well.

[Lisa]

I guess that I'm mostly in agreement with the responses. ATG had a sense of humor and glimpses of it remain to this day. It was mostly a dry, quick, verbal wit, perhaps tinged with a little bitterness and sarcasm at times. I'm remembering now the story of how he was making an offering to the gods as a child and his tutor scolded him for being so generous. It was later, when he was well able, that he sent this former tutor a huge supply of the offering. I'd also forgotten the story of the tent being set afire and I guess that's what I mean by a bit of a rough sense of humor, although I bet his closest companions thought it very funny, indeed. This was a guy who knew how to get the last word and make a point.

Military humor is mostly quite sexist I think and I wonder if he really did engage in that sort of humor? Sometimes, people just play along in order to fit in...... Don't suppose we will ever know. Hard to imagine a man who allowed himself to be adopted by Ada and befriended by Sysigambis joking about things like the rape of captives which was probably what the common soldier was joking about.

[Paralus]

I Hard to imagine a man who allowed himself to be adopted by Ada and befriended by Sysigambis joking about things like the rape of captives which was probably what the common soldier was joking about.

Which, given the fate of Persepolis (not to mention Tyre...), didn't extend to stopping his men putting the humour into action?

[karen]

Hi Lisa (et al):

I think of military humour not so much about rape as about death, blood, guts, etc. We joke about what we fear, after all. Of course this might be based on my father's experience in WWII. He told me this story, in which there was this corpse, and... um, never mind. Alexander's "blood-not-ichor" remark strikes me as a little bit along these lines.

Warmly,
Karen

[Paralus]

Personally I find that Philip had quite a rapier wit. That combined with strong sense of irony; a sharp eye for the foibles, hypocrisy and pomposity of city-state politicians; a no-nonsense decisive manner and a propensity to lie without casting his good eye askance enabled him to play the Greeks like Pele a soccer ball.

Early in his career Philip showed what he was capable of. Having disposed of four rivals for the throne in 359, he turned to the last Argaeus who, with Athenian backing, was ensconced in Methone. During the last days of the 360s Athens, as Macedonia’s ally, had captured this port along with Pydna (as allies do) before chancing her hand at – what else – Amphipolis. Philip, better at this game than credulous Athenian politicians ever would be, promised Amphipolis to Athens in return for her dumping Argaeus and handing back Pydna. Finding himself singularly bereft of Athenian hoplites, Argaeus surrendered.

His kingdom secured, Philip dealt with the Paeonians and Illyrians in order then took sides in an internecine Amphipolotan fight and invested the city. Amphipolis appealed to – of all places – Athens who, facing grain shortages and the revolt of several allies (the “Social War”) left it to Philip to sort out as he was, of course, going to turn the city over them. Having taken the city, Philip then confirmed Amphipolis “a free city”. Whilst the rage built in Athens, he re-took Pydna. The Athenians, beset by allied revolts and a serious grain shortage, waved a finger and declared war.

Olynthus then sought an alliance with Athens. She was too busy (see above) and refused. It then contracted one with Philip on condition that he recover Potidea on behalf of the Khalkidian League. This Philip duly did.

Credulous Athenian politicians – still waiting for Amphipolis to be turned over to them – watched as Philip achieved in three years what Athens had failed to do in sixty or more years of trying.

Philip laughed all the way to the next unmixed krater.

[Lisa]

As for Phillip's rapier wit, I was thinking about the time that he told the prisoner of war to pull his chiton DOWN, because he was just revealing too much....he was a newly discovered friend of the Macedonian royal family, you see. As for the lyre incident, I think that Phillip and Alexander totally intimidated each other from the get go, i.e., from Alexander's childhood. What I mean is, I think that each had an unconscious realization of the greatness of the other and there was rivalry from the start. How mean is it to tell your son that his excellence with the lyre basically makes him look girlish!

[rocktupac]

Personally, I think Alexander would have had a very agrreable personality, and to accompy that a sharp wit. However, it might be assumed that as he gained more power and responsibility (moving further away from Macedonia and adopting Persian customs) Alexander might have showed a humerous side less and less. Just my opinion.

Keroro: you had mentioned that when Alexander replied to Darius' mother, after her misinformed gesture to Hephaestion, he is quoted as saying that "He too is Alexander." This could actually be interpreted as Alexander simply implying that Hephaestion is also a "Protector of Man," the literal translation of Alexandros.

[Lisa]

Although it's never really funny when someone suffers from a fire, I think that the story about Eumenes tent going up in flames to reveal all of his money is pretty funny, too, and it may be the only surviving example we have of an ancient military practical joke.

[jasonxx]

I would call most of Alexanders witt. Derogatory sarcasm. most of it rebiukes to advice given.

A few to Parmenio. The Quip I would if I were Parmenio.
Kenny

[Lisa]

I'll tell you what I secretly find very funny. I"m amused by the story of Alexander being set up, as a teenager, with the prostitute. In my mind's eye, I envision a very smart and worldly wise teenage boy in love with another teenage boy (not passing judgment here) and I can imagine, at least I think I can, his reaction to his parents begging to have sex with a beautiful woman. Sometimes, a teenager in that posision, just wants to feel his or her power and exercise a little control over his or her life. I think that even if Alexander found her beautiful and maybe wanted to take a roll in the hay with her, so to speak, it was more urgent to get back at dear old mom and dad who were TRYING TO RUN HIS LIFE FOR HIM. Know what I mean? He was probably only able to keep a straight face while in the presence of his parents and rolled with laughter at the situation when with Hephaestion.

Best,
Lisa