Cleophis?

[Nicator]

Hello All,I've been slowly slogging my way through Bactria and Sogdiana (a tediously difficult section to write because of the overall lack of set battle pieces). Nevertheless, I've gratefully finished and moved on to the realm of India, via the Swat Valley. Does anybody have a good feel for the validity of the story of the "Whore Queen" Cleophis? Were it not for her harsh title it would seem like a romanticized bit of fiction to me. But I'm inclined to believe that there is some credibility buried in there somewhere. later Nicator

[marcus]

Hi Nick,Have a look at the piece I wrote on Cleophis for the Wiki Classical Dictionary. See follow-on note for link (once I've got it!)ATBMarcus

[marcus]

And the link is ...http://www.ancientlibrary.com/wcd/CleophisATBMarcusPS: My view is that he might well have met her, etc. but there is very great doubt that he ... got close to her.

[Nicator]

Excellent article, many thanks. later Nicator

[amyntoros]

Yes, nice article Marcus. IGÇÖd say thereGÇÖs likely some truth in the story - possibly a child with an unknown father who was named for Alexander, but I doubt it was really his. Whatever anyone believes about AlexanderGÇÖs sexuality, I think we can all agree that Wham, Bam, Thank You MaGÇÖam wasnGÇÖt his style, especially whilst in the midst of a difficult campaign. Cleophis may have believed it advantageous for her child to be thought the offspring of the conqueror, rather than some unknown courtier. And it may well have been so amongst the Indians. I do wonder about JustinGÇÖs claim that Cleophis GÇ£was thenceforward called by the Indians the royal harlot.GÇ¥ For a start, there would have to have been an Indian word that translated as GÇ£harlotGÇ¥ and I donGÇÖt even know if the Indians had prostitutes at this time. That may sound strange, but thereGÇÖs no record at all of prostitution in Egypt prior to the Ptolemies GÇô why not in India? Royal harlot sounds too much like a Greek epithet to me, perhaps conjured long after the fact. But this is all conjecture, of course.ATBAmyntoros

[beausefaless]

Deleted

[amyntoros]

Hi Andrew,Yes, I knew about the "virgin" statement, however, it's a reference to the sexual freedom of the Egyptians and not to prostitution. When sex is readily available and freely given, there's less need or no need for prostitutes, I suppose.I didn't know of the Herodotus anecdote, but it is, after all, a report from a Greek" and not an Egyptian. To clarify, there are absolutely no records of prostitution to be found in Egypt itself, prior to the Ptolemies! :-)Now, coincidentally, just after I posted yesterday I read on the web that there is an historian who disagrees with the above, claiming that it would have been a barter system rather than outright payment for sex and this is the reason there are no records. Doesn't sound too convincing to me though.Out of curiousity - does anyone know if there was a tradition of prostitution in Persia prior to Alexander's conquest? I'm wondering about Persian society in general as oppposed to captured Greek courtesans, etc. I know of the Greek stories about religious prostitution in Babylon, but I don't recall anything else. Bit off-topic, I know, but I always want to find out more about the different cultures of the period. :-)Best regards,Amyntoros