Alexander, Hellenistic women and Olympias

[amyntoros]

This is so funny, Alexander. I haven't convinced you of Alexander's part in the general phenomenon, yet you agree with Marcus' two previous posts. Now, I *never* said that there was any proactive work on Alexander's part, however, I was the one who originally mentioned the men fighting in Asia, etc., and the effect that this had on the women's role at home. So, in effect, Marcus is agreeing with me!Is it the way that I say it???:-)Amyntoros

[ancientlibrary]

I'm confused now who's saying what.As for the women staying at home, I want to see the evidence for social changes. Yes, it accords with examples from other periods (eg., WWII, although that snapped back quick), but I still know of no evidence how changed society in Macedonia. This is a toughie, of course. There isn't much evidence at all...1c. and Egyptian evidence doesn't strike me as meaning much in this debate. These are more than a few social changes away from early 4c. Macedonia, ie. physical transplantation with all the tie-breaking this entails, alient cultural environment, disparities in the ratio of men/women, etc.

[marcus]

Hi Tim,I'm getting confused, too, but that's because I didn't really pay attention at the start of the thread, and leaped in only later.I'm not sure how far I agree or disagree that 1st century evidence isn't any good. For a start, the fact that there is evidence (irrespective of the quantity or quality, for the time being) indicates that the change has already taken place. Second, social, cultural and indeed political change can take a looooong time, not least because it happens at different rates in different parts of society. (Hey, it took nearly 100 years to get universal *male* suffrage in England, before one even starts to think about female suffrage. And it too hundreds of years for women of a certain class in England to see work as something that they could conceivably do ... yet women from lower classes had been working for centuries.)So I don't see that 1st century evidence (or even Egyptian, perhaps) is of no, or limited use. It's the quantity and quality that is more pertinant.ATBMarcus

[amyntoros]

Well, while chatting with my Prof last night I mentioned this thread. (He currently can't read the Pothos forum - some supposedly expunged virus on his computer has reduced the Pothos pages to minuscule type.) He said to me that it sounds like an interesting thesis. And that's the root of the problem right now - this does feel like it's turning into a thesis, and if I'm to be convincing then I need to spend hours on research and I don't have the time to spare because of my other studies. I'll pick up the thread later, I promise, either here or on your Wiki. In the meantime, my Pothos contributions will have to consist of anything that doesn't involve trips to the library or hours on the web. :-)Best regards,Amyntoros

[abm]

Hi LindaThe discussion has been going too long now to remember who said what, but if you've said that, i guess we partly agree on some points although it is hard for anyone here to make her/his case, lacking time to spend hours in the library on it. If you'll pick up this thread later, I'll certainly be interested in continuing the discussion.regards,abm

[marcus]

I think it's a very interesting discussion, but the intrinsic problem with a forum like this is that one never has the time to do all the work and research that's needed ... Amyntoros really needs to write a 25 page thesis and give everyone else a month or two to 'reply' to it :-)I would bet money that bits of this discussion will creep in to other threads for months, now! :-)ATBMarcus