Wretched Mutilated Greeks outside a Persian City

[kenny]

I read with interest an Occasion Alexander was met outside a Persian city by Greek Prisoners Hostages they were mutilated with their hands noses and ears cut off.What is the history of these people when and where did they come from I read Alexander treated them well and looked after them.Well its also good to bear in mind when people criticize and condemn Alexander for his Brutality,,, lets not forget those retched people mutilated by the Persians outside their city.RegardsKenny

[marcus]

Hi Kenny,Unfortunately it's very likely that the story is made up, used as a moral device by Curtius. I believe it's also been suggested that he 'got the idea' from the killing of the wounded at Issus in 333BC, and that he copied it and inserted it at Persepolis to make a point - to provide more rationale for the burning of the city.Yes, the Persians could be cruel (hey, everyone can be, and was!) but they didn't tend to go in for that sort of wholesale mutilation, at least not for the reasons given in Curtius.All the bestMarcus

[jona]

The story is from the Vulgate and can be found in QCR, Justin, and Diodorus. A literary copy of Issus is possible, but there are two strange details.One, please note that several people are said to have list their nose and ears. This is the typical Persian punishment for traitors (cf. Alexander's treatment of Bessus and the http://www.livius.org/be-bm/behistun/behistun01.html ). Two, one of the people was from Cyme in Asia Minor. I think it can not be excluded that these people were Greeks who had supported Parmenio when the war started and had been captured when Parmenio's collapsed after the murder of Philip. But this is just a hypothesis.Jona

[marcus]

Hi Jona,I stand corrected that it's Curtius who makes it up - but the original source (assume Cleitarchus) might well have done.Of course, I'm not doubting that that sort of mutilation happened - as you say, to traitors etc. However, the idea of a great number of foreign captives/workers being systematically mutilated, except for the bits of their bodies they needed to carry out their allotted professions, in order to keep them under control (effectively) seems very suspect to me. I don't think even the Assyrians did that, and they were capable of incredible cruelty.(You know much more about Persia than I do, so I will bow to your superior knowledge, however.)All the bestMarcus

[jona]

Skip this proskynesis please, we simply don't know what happened. One argument for the idea that it is invented, BTW, is that it is absent from Arrian. He could have used this information, which shows that Alexander was fighting against a cruel and dangerous enemy; he could have used it to glorify the conquest and the spread of hellenism - common themes in the second century.Jona

[marcus]

:-)Don't worry, Jona, it was a metaphorical bow! :-)Good point about the absence from Arrian, though.All the bestMarcus

[xxx]

There is no particular reason to doubt the story. Mutilation was the worst thing you could do to a Greek short of death and in fact it was a sentence worse than death. What Darius was attempting to do was force a battle with Alexander, who was at the time, in no hurry to face Darius. Arrian may have omitted the story because he didn't believe Alexander would put troops in that sort of jeopardy, but conversely Alexander would never have believed Darius would want to fight at Issus either. Darius wanted to get Alexander's attention and he did. Given the circumstances of Alexander's illness, it was appropriate for Darius' to take full advantage of such a situation and make Alexander fight at a time of his choosing.

[xxx]

Oops, wrong mutilation story Sorry about that. Too early in the morning.

[heinrich]

Never mind.H

[marcus]

I did wonder ...LOL :-)Marcus

[kenny]

TreI knew what you were saying,,, I think Darius treatment to wards the wouded at Issus further indicated darius confidence in vivtory.He was cock sure he was gonna win so he did what he liked to Alexanders wounded, and feared very little for any consequences Alexander may have dished out following the battle.In any situation that was as nast an act as anything Alexander did and to be honnest Alexander was much kinder to the people he captured than what the Persians did to Alexanders troops.Many a time it get brushed under the carpet just how brutal the Persians would be maybe they entice pitty for getting such a hammering, But measure for measure the Persian hands were as dirty as Alexanders.
Kenny

[xxx]

But Kenny, let us not forget the men Alexander crucified at Tyre. He was just as capable, he just made sure they were dead. However, he never did this again and I think that reflects on Alexander knowing he went too far.

[kenny]

TreThe guys in Tyre caused Alexander & months of hard work agtavation and toil.They caused mysery and agony amongst the Macedonians with boiling sanb,, And the gesture of crucifying Alexander negotaitors cant have done the Tyrians any favours.& months of that Tre the Macedonians were surely gonna vent there anger.Totally different to stumbling across harmless sick and wounded and mutilating them,,, Goes against the Geneva convention.Kenny

[marcus]

Hi Kenny,I'm confused as to which incidence of mutilation etc. we are now talking about. There is a great difference between the wounded at Issus and the mutilated Greeks Alexander met at Persepolis (if they existed). One can make a comparison between Darius at Issus and Alexander at Tyre - whether it's favourable to one, both or neither - but the Greeks at Persepolis were mutilated during peace-time, to bind them to their jobs at Persepolis and to prevent them from having any inclination to revolt, get freed and return to their homelands. (It wouldn't be appropriate to compare them with the crucified Tyrians.)So, in a way, what happened to them (if they existed) was (marginally) worse than what happened at Issus, which was in a war situation.That's not to say that one should condone *any* of the activities - but then, of course, there was no Geneva Convention, and people tended to do whatever they felt necessary to win, revolting though it might seem to us.All the bestMarcus