Why Not a God?

[marcus]

Well, the dead rising again goes back certainly to the Levant and Middle East at least in the 2nd Millennium BC, and I assume further - all to do with the rites of Spring, of course. There was a lot to do with it in the worship of Cybele in Anatolia (Tammuz was, if I recall correctly, the dead/risen god); Osiris did the same in Egypt, under somewhat different circumstances ...All the bestMarcus

[marcus]

Hi Halil,Yes, that's exactly what I was trying to say - but you did it much better. It was sort of where my question about whether the Greeks really considered the 'supernatural' as such - if a mortal could become immortal, even if only after death, it points to a very different attitude to these things.All the bestMarcus

[Linda]

Well it is how you define as supernatural, and natural. You can get twisted in knots, but a god *must* be supernatural - ie beyond nature, which is why asking a god to prove they are a god, by doing something that an ordinary human can't do. ie - rising after death would seem to fall into that category. Did anyone really believe the roman emperors were gods (apart from tribes that didn't know they were just lunatics, but thought that it might be possible they actually did have divine powers... Living in a human body is ok, again, as long as you are supernatural (by which I don't mean a ghost, but, as I say, above/beyond nature - which is why people ask gods to prove they are by performing a miracle, hence the jeering at Jesus on the cross). The original point was about whether Alexander was a God, and as he didn't actually do anything that no human could do, then no.I was thinking of modern religions when I said the Christian "risen God" - I may be wrong, but it is a kind of Christian selling-point, so I assumed it to be the case. Of course, all religions have strong roots in pagan beliefs and psychology. One book I love is The Corn King and the Spring Queen, by Niaomi Mitchison, set around the Black Sea, which depicts the harvest rituals.

[marcus]

Hi Linda,Well, when you get back to the original question, "was Alexander a god?", then according specifically to our concept of godhead then I totally agree with you.I do think it's a more interesting question, however, as to whether he warranted deification in his own time, according to Greek beliefs ... and then, before or simply after death ... :-)All the bestMarcus

[Linda]

Ah - right. I understand now. You can tell I did philosophy and not history...Linda

[marcus]

"Did anyone really believe the roman emperors were gods (apart from tribes that didn't know they were just lunatics, but thought that it might be possible they actually did have divine powers..."Well, that's exactly the question, isn't it? Julius Caesar had no objection to the Hellenistic cities of the East putting up statues to him as a god, because that was "their way"; yet he absolutely refused to be thought of as a god in Rome - which makes the 'definition' of a god far more of a cultural thing, and once that pertains more to the types of honour you pay to someone, rather than to any actual belief that the person is 'supernatural' in any way. (If that makes sense.) (However, note that it was sophisticated city states who accorded him these honours during his life, not tribes outside the sphere of Hellenistic and Roman influence.)Now, obviously the Roman attitude cannot be used to define the attitude of 4th century Greece; and, of course, the Eastern cities probably wouldn't have accorded Caesar those honours without the trend for deifying Hellenistic rulers which sprang out of Alexander's 'divinity question'. So it does have some bearing on how these things were viewed.All the bestMarcus

[susan]

I've got the Naomi Mitchison as well - but it's rather bloody at the end isn't it ? She wrote a children's story of Alexander, too.Susan

[Halil]

I was thinking more in a generic way - that, in essense, all the mysteries were aimed at "cheating" death in some way. They each provided initiates with a way of having a life after death. Some taught a way of returning to a physical form, others taught a way of having a better life in the Underworld, etc... but the essence is the same: death need not be the end.Cheers Halil

[Halil]

LindaYou seem, by your defense of Christianity, to be a Christian, so I will not argue your beliefs. It would serve no purpose, since beliefs are simply beliefs, they are not facts.But the problem with a singular god and the religions that believe in one, is that their followers cannot go beyond that. Because they believe that only one god exists and it is *their* god, then they cannot tolerate the existence of religions that have different beliefs and philosophies. If, as a Christian, you studied philosophy, isn't that a bit like studying biology whilst believing that there is only one living being? You cannot go where other thoughts can lead.Have your beliefs if you wish, but, and I'm saying this in a kind way, don't put the limits of your beliefs on others. Don't even put the limits of your beliefs on yourself. It will make you blind to other possibilities. Here I will stop, since to go beyond this might cause offense and to answer you fully would need a book length dissertation.Kindest regardsHalil

[Linda]

Hi HalilI don't have any religious beliefs. I have *never* been so insulted :)I was just trying to get definitions sorted out. I wasn't making a value judgement about Christianity being better because it had a risen god, just that I thought it was one of the only that does in modern times. But I don't really know about that, and it was in reference to an earlier point about a god being someone who comes back from the dead - I was saying "not always".I broadly agree with your point about belief/fact, but I do know several very thoughtful intelligent religious people, who are very good at philosophical thought, but, yes, it is rather like knowing the answer before asking the questions.Here's to open horizons.
Linda

[Halil]

Cheers, Linda! It brings me joy to hear that your horizons are open and free. May you soar like an eagle!Halil