Testing St Mark

[Taphoi]

There's an interesting (if slightly garbled) news story at:-http://www.zoomata.com/modules.php?name ... e&sid=1093(Pothos may add a warning to this link which may require you to copy it out of the page to use it)"If a British historian is right, Italians in Venice have spent the last 400 years or so praying to conqueror Alexander the Great instead of city patron St. Mark. Both historical figures were mummified and hidden in Alexandria. Legend has it that remains of the Macedonian king were disguised as those of Mark the Evangelist to keep them from harm during a religious uprising, while the remains of the saint were smuggled out in a basket to become the centerpiece and namesake of the most elegant drawing room in Europe. Historian Andrew Chugg, author of 'The Lost Tomb of Alexander the Great', wants the remains dug up and examined to prove his theory. Chugg may meet with less resistance from Church officals than expected.
Ettore Vio, architect and procurator of the Venetian basilica, says the foreign historian is but another voice in the chorus of local authorities who have long debated about whether the bones at the crypt in the heart of La Serenissima belong to St. Mark. And that it may be time to discover once and for all whether a skeleton switcheroo took place. It would be the latest in a series of dramatic discoveries made by Italian scientists using modern technology on ancient remains. Poet Petrarch was recently found to have lost his head when researchers discovered after DNA testing that the skull found in his tomb most likely belongs to a woman. Over the last decade or so, figures like painter Giotto and Dante's 'Cannibal Count' Ugolino della Gherardesca have made headlines and become the object of exhibits, books and documentaries following DNA testing."

[calesstheness]

I haven't read your book (though I heard your BBC discussion with Robin Lane Fox), but it seems credibly possible that a switch might had been perpetrated to safeguard Alexander's body from destruction by the event and situation prevailing at the time.
Now only if the church will willingly accede to the theory and lend out the remains for testing, this issue could be possibly settled pretty soon.
But would there be other DNA samples/references that could be used to compare or match Alexander's DNA, thus irrefutably validate the fact?
I for one wants this issue resolved soon. And if it so done and confirmed, you will have strucked out an old mystery and will rewrite history...
Good Luck......

[Taphoi]

I have only suggested DNA testing in an ancillary role (it might for example be possible to detect disease DNA, such as malaria). I principally recommend radiocarbon (carbon-14) dating. An uncontaminated sample (e.g. one taken from the interior of one of the larger bones) should yield a date of death accurate to within a few decades. If the remains in St Mark's date to the late 4th century BC, then that would strongly support the identification of the remains as Alexander. Such a date would be very unlikely in a randomly selected corpse from Late Roman Alexandria. Other tests and inspections would potentially be helpful. The arrow which struck Alexander in the chest in India is said by some authors (especially Plutarch, who collated Alexander's wounds) to have lodged in Alexander's breast bones. If so, then we should look for signs of healed scratches on the breast bones to help to identify the Macedonian king. Facial reconstruction may be feasible - we have plenty of busts for comparison. There is more discussion of this in my book. There should really be no difficulty in resolving the issue one way or the other, if appropriate testing and inspection is undertaken. Best wishes, Andrew

[jona]

An interesting question is what we must do with the body if it turns out to be Alexander's. He wanted to be buried "near Ammon". Must the body, therefore, be returned to Egypt? Or stay, against the deceased wishes, in Venice? Will Greece or Macedonia claim the body? I expect nice funeral games...Jona

[xxx]

It in fact was more likely Alexander wanted to be burned on a Pyre as was Hephaistion in Babylon. Typically, his generals went against his wishes in everything, even his own death. It is rather bizarre we appear to have a wish to do something Alexander himself found unsavory - desecrating tombs of the dead.I prefer to leave the dead buried myself out of respect.

[Taphoi]

The future fate of the remains is in the hands of the Catholic Church. It is extremely unlikely that any court with jurisdiction would dispute their ownership after so long. If a court allowed such a case, it would probably set a precedent which would imply that America should be returned to the native tribes! Incidentally, the most credible chronicles suggest that the remains were given voluntarily to the Venetians by the Christian church in Alexandria, who were the previous owners, though it is admitted that they were smuggled past the Arab authorities for export purposes. The Catholic Church has anyway seemingly done a good job of looking after the remains for the last 12 centuries. Best wishes, Andrew

[jona]

"The future fate of the remains is in the hands of the Catholic Church. It is extremely unlikely that any court with jurisdiction would dispute their ownership after so long."If it were an artifact, I could agree; but this is a human being. Several countries have laws for reburial (USA, all Islamic nations; Israel; the Vatican), and in this case, we know the person's will. I guess that someone claiming that Alexander should be buried in Egypt, and finding support from Egypt, will have a strong case that can sicken international cultural relations on a scale that makes the Elgin Marbles look like a schoolkid's puzzle. Anyhow, let's see what happens.Best wishes for the New Year!Jona

[Dr. Pal]

Dear Dr. Chugg,I have not been able to read your book as it is not available here at Calcutta but I intend to buy it in March when I plan to go to San Francisco. I recently saw a picture of Soviet archaeologists unearthing the body of Tamerlane and was immediately reminded of your wonderful idea. XXX may be right in thinking that Alexander wanted to be burned on a Pyre (for us this is the normal funerary practice) but being a scientist I would welcome DNA tests as it may substantially enrich our knowledge about Alexander.I have one question to XXX who wrote
GÇ£Typically, his generals went against his wishes in everything, even his own death.GÇ¥
Why was it like that? Does it not point to a general atmosphere of treason?Regards,Dr. Pal

[Taphoi]

Dear Dr Pal,Unfortunately, you will not be able to buy my book in San Francisco, since it hasn't been published in the US. You will probably only be able to get it by Mail Order. Amazon UK at http://www.amazon.co.uk/ would normally ship internationally, if you request it. Alternatively Oxbow Books at http://www.oxbowbooks.com/ should be able to send it to you. There are other stockists on the web as well, e.g. use the book search engine at http://www2.addall.com/Used/ In all cases you need to search on "tomb alexander" or "chugg" to find the web pages which list my book.I sympathise with the sensibilities of those people who believe human remains should be left to rest in peace. However, I think that their feelings are superseded by the right of the deceased and of the community to get the remains correctly identified. It is standard and ethically correct practice to conduct tests on remains where there is a significant question over their true identity. The testing can be conducted sensitively and with only very minor sampling from the remains. Best wishes, Andrew

[xxx]

Greetings Dr. Pal and Andrew:First, on the wishes of the dead - would Alexander want to be dug up and identified? No. It has nothing to do with the wishes of the dead, but of the wishes of those still living, none of whom are relatives of Alexander. I question whether the body could be positively identified, but bone fractures of the chest would not be proof positive - neither Curtius or Plutarch in his earlier work referred to ribs/breastbone being broken and neither did Arrian. I would however, be surprised if Alexander was not injured far more often than the texts relate which would make it even harder. A healed fibula fracture would be a better way to go but in bones this old that would be difficult.As for the generals - without their alpha the pack fell apart and wished to do only what they wanted too for their own cause. They could work together under their master who was indisputably the best of them and generous to each, but their own greed, incompetence and wish for power destroyed any chance for Alexander's empire to continue. As you might gather, I don't think very highly of them. It didn't matter what Alexander wanted for his death, Perdikkas wanted to bring the body back to Macedon to present it to his mother, have him burned and buried, marry Cleopatra and therefore become King officially. Ptolemy hijacked the body because Alexander had become a relic of power, and besides, he had no intention of furthering Perdikkas' aims. He was going to legitimize his own rule by 'honoring' his brother and burying him. Note however, he did not burn the body - a relic had already been perserved. I don't believe that he wanted to be buried in Egypt crap for a second. Babylon was the capital of his empire - not Macedon, not Egypt, not anywhere else.Best wishes for the New Year.Regards,Tre

[Halil]

Well said, Tre, on all points.Regards
Halil

[Taphoi]

Just a few points of information.a) The remains in St Mark's are not buried, but rest in a marble sarcophagus above the ground and in full view beneath the high altar. There is no need to dig anything up.
b) Curtius says Alexander wanted his body to be taken to Ammon. Justin says Alexander asked for his body to be taken to the Temple of Ammon. Lucian says that Ptolemy promised Alexander that he would take his body to Egypt. The Will of Alexander in the Alexander Romance says Alexander ordered his body to be taken to Egypt. I am not aware of any other statements of Alexander's views on where he should be buried.
c) If an avaricious and grasping Ptolemy wanted Alexander's body as a status symbol, it is odd that he refused the offer of the Regency of the Empire when Perdiccas was killed in 321BC.Best wishes,Andrew

[Halil]

Hello AndrewI haven't managed to obtain a copy of your book yet, but I am looking forward to reading it, even though I hope that "St Mark" is discovered to be either St Mark himself or some other person who is definitely not Alexander. I can't imagine Alexander being pleased at being dead and on display anywhere, whether it be Alexandria, Venice or some other museum.RegardsHalil