Sparta and Alexander

[maximus]

Hi guys,
My two area of expertise are in Sparta and Alexander, any replies are more than welcome but those with any knowledge of Sparta please respond.
When Alexadner came to power the undisputed top dog of Greece was Thebes. Although Athens tried to act the part there glory days were over. Before Phillip ever came to the throne Sparta was the leading city. After the Pellopanessian War, forgive the spelling, Sparta left Athens stripped of its power. However soon after Thebes lead the way by beating Sparta in a few skirmishes and some battles. However if Sparta had been at the height of its power would they have been able to rally a defence and lead the Greeks inot a united front against Phillip?
Thanx, Maximus

[marcus]

That's probably an all but impossible question to answer. The first question would have to be what the shape of Greece would have been under Spartan hegemony.One of the peculiar aspects of Greece was the unwillingness of any state to play second fiddle to any other. Had Sparta been leading a league of states one of two things would have happened: either there would have been enough states who distrusted or disliked the Spartans enough to ally themselves with Philip; or the Spartans would already have launched the campaign against Persia (although I doubt they would have got far because they would have argued too much).If the question purely comes down to whether Macedonia would have beaten a Sparta-led coalition, then it's still impossible to say. Philip beat a coalition comprising Thebes and Athens, and Thebes had beaten the Spartans 30-40 years earlier. Were the Spartans, at their zenith, any better than the Thebans in the 370s-340s?All the bestMarcus

[craig]

When Philip was a boy he was held captive for a while in Thebes. During his time here he stayed with a Theben general (Pammenes). So during his time he was able to view the excellent military system put into place and run by Epaminondas.
Not only the training of a professional army (headed by the sacred band) but also the advance in military tactics, used by Epaminondas himself.Epaminondas knew that all hoplites in a phalanx had a tendancy to move to their right in the heat off battle (to keep that side protected by the shield of the man next to him).Epaminondas therefor would refuse the left wing of his force which meant his right wing would come into contact with the enemy first. This could cause a break between the enemy center and left or an outflanking on the enemy right.These tactics were used by Phillip 2nd at the battle of Lake Okhrida and by Phillip again at Charonea and later by Alexander.Therefor since this system defeated the Spartans at Leuctra, i think the Macedonians (a superior army to the Thebans, no doubt) commanded by either father or son would have dealt with the Spartans also.Indeed Antipater defeated King Agis in battle on Alexanders behalf at Megalopolis.

[tino]

If you consider that under Philip and Alexander the Macedonians were at their peak then it would only be appropriate to compare them with the Spartans likewise. Would the Spartans at their peak with their peak commander have defeated the Macedonians at their peak with their peak commander? Agesilaus vs. Alexander perhaps? Philip vs. Pausanias? The truth is that Sparta certainly would have defeated all the Macedonian kings prior to Philip and Alexander. It brings to mind the incident in Plutarch's Agesilaus on his march back to Greece asking all the states he passed whether they would allow him through as friend or foe:"He sent the like embassy to the King of Macedonia, who replied, he would take time to deliberate. Let him deliberate," said Agesilaus, "we will go forward in the meantime." The Macedonian, being surprised and daunted at the resolution of the Spartan, gave orders to let him pass as a friend."

[iskander_32]

Hi folksIn there prime I thought the Spartan hoplite and tactics were un rivaled,disciplined and organised.But in reality that was all they had one fantastic tool in there bag, they were rigid and one dimensional.The Macedonian Phalnx would have easily held them,or maybe not but Alexander and philip had many tools of excellent quility Cavalry Infantry everything I believe Philip and Alexander would have taken them to pieces, At Cheronaea it was Alexanders cavalry that smashed the Theban sacred band with little loss to himself, he didnt jusy beat them he anhialated them, I believe the Thebanns better advanced than the Spartans and the Macedonians steps up from that.Philips and Alexanders army I do believe were the total package trained,tough disciplined I dont think there was a weeknes in any of there troops and ALexander was inovating all the time,with each new situation he developed and improvised to over come what was in front of him.kenny