Alexander vs. Memnon of Rhodes; Lucky escape?

[maximus]

Alexander the Great once said that the only mortal equal to him, on the battlefield, was Memnon of Rhodes. He was a greek Mercenery who sold his sword to the Great King Darius. Although they never fought a pitched battle, at the Granicus it was only the satraps of Phygria and Lydia, correct me if i am wrong, however he managed to inflect Alexander heavy losses at Miletus for example. Then one day he dies of a mysterious illness. Valerio Massimo Manfredi attempts to explain this by Eumenes, Alexanders Secretary General and Ptolemy poisoning him. I was wondering whether, if faced by an army, say at Issus, where the odds where against him in numbers, and with a General of such a calibre as Memnon Alexander might have been defeated?

[ScottOden]

Hi Ben,I'd say Alexander probably would have still won. As good as a soldier as Memnon may have been, he was still but a cog in the Persian war machine. On his own, he was able to delay Alexander and make him expend precious resources taking Miletus and Halicarnassus (the more devastating of the two, for Alexander -- I would go so far as to call it a pyrrhic victory, since Memnon had total control of the field and could come and go as he pleased). But, under the aegis of Darius III, Memnon's ideas might have been implemented, yet the general mistrust the other Persian nobles had for him would have hampered his effectiveness. I think it would have been a longer, bloodier battle, but it would have had the same outcome. Good question, though!What I wonder is, if Memnon's brother, Mentor, had not died in 340, would Alexander had been able to win at Granicus? Mentor's command would have superseded Arsites (Mentor was responsible for military matters in the West, regardless of satrapal borders), and Mentor would have listened to his brother (I think). The pair of them might have crushed Alexander's Persian Expedition in its infancy.I do disagree with the appellation of 'mercenary' that is applied to Memnon. He was a medized Rhodian and linked to the Persian nobility by marriage. He fought, I think, as much for patriotism and ambition as did the sons of Artabazus.All the best!Scott Oden

[ScottOden]

Hi Ben,I'd say Alexander probably would have still won. As good as a soldier as Memnon may have been, he was still but a cog in the Persian war machine. On his own, he was able to delay Alexander and make him expend precious resources taking Miletus and Halicarnassus (the more devastating of the two, for Alexander -- I would go so far as to call it a pyrrhic victory, since Memnon had total control of the field and could come and go as he pleased). But, under the aegis of Darius III, Memnon's ideas might have been implemented, yet the general mistrust the other Persian nobles had for him would have hampered his effectiveness. I think it would have been a longer, bloodier battle, but it would have had the same outcome. Good question, though!What I wonder is, if Memnon's brother, Mentor, had not died in 340, would Alexander had been able to win at Granicus? Mentor's command would have superseded Arsites (Mentor was responsible for military matters in the West, regardless of satrapal borders), and Mentor would have listened to his brother (I think). The pair of them might have crushed Alexander's Persian Expedition in its infancy.I do disagree with the appellation of 'mercenary' that is applied to Memnon. He was a medized Rhodian and linked to the Persian nobility by marriage. He fought, I think, as much for patriotism and ambition as did the sons of Artabazus.All the best!Scott Oden

[dean]

Hello Ben,Coincidentally I was reading Peter Green's excellent disection of Halicarnassus in ALexander the Macedon- he says that Memnon completely outthought Alexander and it was only thanks to the retired old soldiers who came valiently to the rescue who saved the day so to speak.Best regards,
Dean.

[jan]

That is interesting coincidence, as I am reading Arrian's version, and noted that it is due to Memnon's actions against Mitylene that he soon dies. The manner in which the Persians abused Mitylene was so dreadful that it appeared that Memnon deserved to die, and that it was just a stroke of luck for Alexander to be rid of the most serious Greek mercernary capable of doing him any real harm. I am on the side that Alexander would have defeated Memnon anywhere anyway, as Alexander does have the dutiful attitude to make all his sacrifices properly, thus insuring, his being favored by the gods. I am a believer that it is because Alexander is truly obedient to his divine calling that he is so successful.Jan

[iskander_32]

All Memnon really did was hold Alexander and delayes him with his tactics,he does have to be admired for that. But once Memnon took the fiels at Gaugamella he would meet Alexander on his terms, Alexander was sometimes stumped by sieges and forts but in opem battle he was an absolute master.I dont think Memnon could do any better at Gaugamella darius had the numbers and terrain, I feel de deployed them well,he maintained a defensice containoing manouver of Alexander. I doubt Memnon would take the initiative against Alexander, Even if he did Im sure our man would have an answer, Alexander was the Greatest general and man of war that there ever was.Kenny

[ruthaki]

Hi Scott, I knew you'd have something interesting to say about this!

[yiannis]

AT Granicus, it an obvious mistake on Memnon's behalf not to deploy the Greek mercenaries when the Persian cavalry started to lose ground. Perhaps because he was fighting in the frond line with the Persian nobles (was he obliged to do so?), perhaps because of the confusion of the Persian cavalry retreating. On the other hand Alexander ordered his generals not to harm Memnon's estates in Asia Minor, thus putting suspisions in the Persians' minds that there might be something "fishy" going on between Memnon and Alexander. Clever move by AtG!

[marcus]

Hi Yiannis,I'm not so sure it was a "mistake on Memnon's behalf". Don't the accounts indicate rather than Memnon was forced to keep the mercenaries back because either (a) the Persians didn't trust them, or (b) the Persians wanted the glory of packing the upstart back to Greece for themselves.It is more likely that Memnon knew exactly what should have been done, but was in no position to decide the Persian tactics.All the bestMarcus

[yiannis]

Hi Marcus,Yes, you're probably right. It was anyway proven throughout history that "aristocratic" cavalry always considered itself superior to "common" foot soldiers. Sounds like a superiority complex that has proven disastrous in many battles. That trait continued until well into WW1. We should also remember the Polish cavalry charges against Nazi tanks in WWII. Brave but hopeless.Regards,
Yiannis

[ScottOden]

Since we're on the subject of Memnon, I'm working on compiling an index of Memnon in the ancient sources. So far, I have Aristotle, Arrian, Demosthenes, Diodorus, Plutarch, Curtius Rufus, Strabo, and an inscription in the Stoa at Athens, I don't have Justin or the Oxyrrencian (sp) Historian. If anyone has either of those and could cut and paste the Memnon mentions to me, I'd be eternally grateful. Am I missing any others?Thanks!Scott Oden

[amyntoros]

Hi Scott:When you say you have included Plutarch in your compilation, do you mean just the Lives, or have you included the Moralia? I only have five volumes so far and have found just one reference to Memnon, but there may be more.PlutarchGÇÖs Moralia, Volume III. Harvard University Press, 1968Excerpts from Sayings of Kings and CommandersMEMNONMemnon, who was waging war against Alexander on the side of King Darius, when one of his mercenary soldiers said many libelous and indecent things of Alexander, struck the man with his spear, saying, GÇ£I pay you to fight Alexander, not to malign him.GÇ¥Best regards,Linda Ann

[ScottOden]

Hi Linda,Thanks for that! I forgot, actually, to check Plutarch's Moralia. So far, I've only found 2 references in the Life of Alexander. I'm going to use Perseus to search the rest of Plutarch. Many, many thanks :)Scott

[xxx]

I thought they said the Greek mercenaries gathered on a hill to watch what the outcome would be, but I could be wrong...I find it unlikely the Persians would not have used paid forces as they were more expendable than their own.

[jan]

I have one more comment about Memnon and Darius. Didn't Memnon also flee when at Halicarnassus and escape to an island? How is that so different from Darius fleeing at Issus?