ATG and the Lord of the Rings

[beausefaless]

Has anyone noticed the similarities the seconded and third movies of the trilogies? The pikes in the second movie and the crude wedge formation of the calvary charge (nice saddles & stirrups) that created a look of concern on the faces of the orc and of course the elephants in the third. The screen writers and Peter Jackson credit the Viking look but absolutely nothing is credited to King Philip Arrhidaeus nor Alexander III. I wonder where they got the idea but there's no holds barred in fiction. All these supposed ancestors from Alexander should sue.

[lucinos]

The Lord of the Rings is not a movie. It is a book written by JRR TOLKIEN. Peter Jackson just maked the book a movie.

[amyntoros]

Yes, I got quite excited when I first saw the extremely long pikes in the second movie, but they never used them - just left them waving around in the air! During the film, I told my son if they dropped the pikes to shoulder level then the Orcs (or whatever they were) would win the battle. My son thought I was quite crazy, of course. :-)Linda Ann

[beausefaless]

Just before the calvary charged into the massive phalanx the sun had risen and blinded the Orcs. I agree, in reality they would have made burger out of the men and horse.Take careAndrew

[lucinos]

Tolkien to "create" his own world (midle earth) used ideas from mythology ,history and linguistics of Europe. You are right that while everybody mentions the mythology of nothern Europe nobody relate Tolkien with Greeks. For example if you read about Silmarilion you will find an obvius connection with the story of Atlantis (and many others)

[beausefaless]

You are correct. Part of my message was based on a interview with Jackson and a screenwriter whose name I can't recall. I thought it ironic of the obvious resemblance of the sarissa in The Two Towers and a quick form of the wedge Alexander is noted for in Return of the King. The look on the Orc's faces made me think they were totally confused to see such a maneuver and that gave the cavalry an advantage.

[Nicator]

I thought the same thing. It was such a ripoff. My second thought was about how all the historically ignorant people watching this movie will think Stone ripped off the Lord of the Rings when Alexander does his cavalry wedge into Darius' lines. later Nicator

[Alex K.]

The Sun also made Orcs lose part of their strength (Except the Uruk-Hai)

[Max]

Huh? Wedge? I barely recall the cavalry forming into a wedge. But then again, I'm not known for my powers of observation (you guys are talking about the battle of Pelennor fields right?)
I assume that most of the ignorant people won't have even noticed this -Max

[marcus]

Well, it turned into a sort of wedge, although it didn't look to me as if they intended it. Still, it was effective and those nasty orcs got their cumuppance!All the bestMarcus

[beausefaless]

I agree with your had it coming theory (comeuppance). I recall the king giving vague orders to the commanders of the left and right flank, that caught my eye for the charge unfortunately it was a long shot and a short scene. It was obvious enough to force me to voice in front of some friends, "that scoundrel Jackson copied a well known tactic from ATG!" I hope their was some sort of flattery involved but I have my doubts.All the best,Andrew

[marcus]

I suppose one of the problems is that the idea of charging cavalry in a wedge became more common, and JAckson (or his fight choreographers) might have decided upon it without even realising that it was Alexander's ruse. While we're looking for LoTR comparisons, then... do we see a bit of Aristotle in Gandalf? And perhaps some of Philotas in Boromir (although Boromir was killed by the Uruk-Hai, rather than by his own team, and achieved some redemption which Philotas was denied)?:-)Marcus

[Max]

Ah...yes..I assumed that the cavalry was TRYING to charge in line but got badly disorganized and broke ranks - HA!
(effective against those orcs nonetheless -Max

[Sam]

Let's not read too much into this. In reality the cavalry cannot possibly "rolled" away those orc infantry lines like that - however lack of discipline they're assumed to be. Jackson merely designed the film for kids and did not want to portray too much violence in the movie.

[marcus]

Hi Sam,You're right, of course. On the other hand, at least the majority of the Orc line broke before the charge reached them, and they were mown down as they ran away. Had they all stood their ground then things would have turned out very differently.But hey, if Alexander had had a couple of handy Elves at the Hydaspes, his anti-elephant tactics would have been much different, too...All the bestMarcus