Alexander in Frontinus

[ancientlibrary]

I posted all the incidents from Frontinus'
Strategmata involving Alexander in the Wiki
Classical Dictionary..It is certain the URL will get mangled by Pothos.
It is
http://www.ancientlibrary.com/wcd/Text:_Alexand
er_the_Great_in_Frontinus . Find it under "Text:
Alexander the Great in Frontinus" in the
Alexander category, or search for Frontinus..If anyone wishes, here would be a good place to
discuss what, if anything, Frontinus adds to out
knowledge, sources, etc.

[amyntoros]

Tim, I made a couple of tiny changes which actually make me a bit nervous. You obviously had the book to hand, while I extracted my Frontinus file from LacusCurtius (and included refs to Philip and others from A's time). Anyway, I changed a couple of reference numbers. If LacusCurtius is wrong, please let me know.You also didn't include my very first reference, but I didn't want to add it as there may be a very good reason for its omission.On Finding Out the Enemy's PlansWhen the Carthaginians saw that the power of Alexander was so great that it menaced even Africa, they ordered one of their citizens, a resolute man named Hamilcar Rhodinus, to go to the king, pretending to be an exile, and to make every effort to gain his friendship. When Rhodinus had succeeded in this, he disclosed to his fellow-citizens the king's plans. (1.2.3)I would love to discuss Frontinus. Amongst other curiosities, his description of Alexander's entry into Babylon differs so greatly from the major sources that I'm not quite sure *what* to make of it. :-)Amyntoros

[ancientlibrary]

All I have to say is: damn! Why the hell did I scan Frontinus when Thayer already had it? Arg. Incidentally, I think Thayer might be wrong about copyright. It's bound up in the UK publication and the requirements of GATT. But, I'm not sure. As for 1.2.3, it should have been there. I left it off in order to check whether was the right Alexander, but it is. See http://www.ancientlibrary.com/smith-bio/1434.html on Hamilcar Rhodanus. I'll add an entry into the WCD about him too, since Smith doesn't include the Frontinus reference.As for Babylon, yes, that IS odd. I don't know what to make of it. I'll think about it. Anyone else?

[ancientlibrary]

Incidentally, your corrections are both correct. Thank you. I'm not sure whether I should keep it up, since Frontinus is already on the web. But I'll keep it for now. Soon, I hope to get my "Wiki-Commentary" engine up.

[Taphoi]

Alexander did indeed dig a channel from the Euphrates upstream from Babylon. But he did it at the time of his final visit to the city and his purpose was to divert the annual spate of the river to stop it flooding the city when the snows melted in the mountains (e.g. Arrian 7.21). He also "dug out a harbour" for his fleet at Babylon. Is it not possible that Frontinus has misunderstood his sources on this point?Best wishes,Andrew

[Tim]

That sounds very plausible, although it's really a doozy of a mistake. This is not only as a historical slip, but also considering Frontinus' expertise in water issues. Of all things, you wouldn't think he'd get a water fact wrong!The only other possibility is, I think, if Babylon's the problem. I can't think, but are there any other such actions--not involving Babylon?

[amyntoros]

Only a personal opinion, but I would keep your Frontinus text up on the web. It differs from Thayer considerably in that you've extracted Alexander references only. You probably remember that we started to do the same with other authors for Susan's site but were derailed by copyright issues in most cases. However, Marcus and I continued to prepare files for personal use, and also with the intent that we would share with anyone interested. We've included excerpts on Philip and anyone else close to Alexander, and to date we have around 25 separate files on particular authors and a miscellaneous file with about 15 more writers. I'm not sure, but I would estimate that the works of only a half-dozen of these writers were found on the web, however, we still find our files preferable because one doesn't have to search the whole work to find specific references. That's why I think your Frontinus text page is still of great use to the average Pothosian. Someone with a casual interest in Alexander can find every single reference in Frontinus on one single web page.Just my thoughts...Amyntoros

[ancientlibrary]

Most of the texts in question are from that Robinson translation of the FGrH, right? We need to find out if that copyright was renewedGÇöit was published in the US, right? If it was not, that would add a great addition. I was going down to DC a week ago, and was going to call on the Copyright Office, but I ended up staying home and working.I have a similar situation with Berve. I have him scanned, but I can't figure out whether or not he's in copyright.

[Taphoi]

Since Frontinus mentions the Euphrates as well as Babylon, it's difficult to suppose that he got the wrong place. Perhaps he used an intermediate source, and this is a case of "Chinese whispers". However, I would say that it is my experience that, although Latin historians usually give reliable factual information, their interpretations and explanations of the facts are often very wide of the mark. This may be a case in point. Frontinus may have read an account of Alexander's river diversion and jumped to the conclusion that this was an act of warfare. Best wishes, Andrew

[amyntoros]

This isn't the only stratagem where Frontinus has the place confused.-á At 1.7.7, he has Alexander pouring away the water from a helmet while travelling the deserts of *Africa*, and Alexander's treatment of Stateira appears to have been transferred instead to a tribal maiden who was later returned to her lover. (2.11.6)I'm usually concerned when I read something completely contrary to the known histories, because then I begin to doubt anything else the author has written that isn't found elsewhere. It isn't too much of a problem with Frontinus as there is little else that is controversial, at least concerning Alexander, but Polyaenus' Stratagems is another matter.-á He gives completely conflicting versions of events at Tyre, of all places. (4.3.4)-á "Having left a part of his army before Tyre, Alexander himself marched into Arabia.-á His absence gave the Tyrians new spirits: who advanced beyond their walls, engaged the Macedonians in the field, and frequently defeated them.-á Parmenio, AlexanderGÇÖs general, gave him notice of what had passed, who suddenly returning, and seeing the Macedonians retreating before the enemy, instead of flying to their assistance, marched directly to the town; which he surprised, evacuated by the Tyrian forces, and took it by storm.-á The Tyrians, finding their city taken, surrendered themselves and their arms to the discretion of the Macedonian conqueror."Again, I have absolutely no idea what to make of this.Best regards,
Amyntoros

[amyntoros]

I think I know how Frontinus erred concerning Alexander's entry into Babylon. The preliminary discourse to Polyaenus' Stratagems of War says that Frontinus was an admirer, and today I found this in Polyaenus.7.6.5 Cyrus, at the siege of Babylon, after he had completed the channel, through which he intended to turn the Euphrates, that then run through the city, marched his army to a considerable distance: which induced the Babylonians to conclude, that he had given up all hopes of carrying the place; and they therefore became more remiss in their defense of it. But suddenly diverting the course of the river, he secretly marched his army through the old channel; and while the Babylonians thought themselves in perfect security, made himself master of the place.And here's Frontinus:3. 7 4. At Babylon, which is divided into two parts by the river Euphrates, Alexander constructed both a ditch and an embankment, the enemy supposing that the earth was being taken out merely to form the embankment. Alexander, accordingly, suddenly diverting the stream, entered the town along the former river bed, which had dried up and thus afforded an entrance to the town.Hmmm, somehow I can't see Alexander being accidentally confused with Cyrus, although Maxwell O'Brien thinks there is a remarkable similarity between Xenophon's Cyropaedia and Alexander's life. Maybe it was intentional on the part of Frontinus?Best regards,Amyntoros

[ancientlibrary]

Good sleuth!I hope no one's ever noticed that. (I'm guessing someone has, alas.) In either case, that was spot on.In my opinion, the world needs a commentary on all these unsourced bitsGÇöPolyaenus, Frontinus, Sayings of Kings and Commanders, etc. Any desire to add that bit of Sleuthing to the WCD text of Frontinus? ( http://www.ancientlibrary.com/wcd/Text: ... _Frontinus )

[ancientlibrary]

Noticed in the Loeb edition, dammit. ( http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/R ... tml#note36 )

[agesilaos]

But also Arrian IV iii 2-4 at Cyropolis where Alexander enters through a river bed, either the mention of Cyropolis made Frontinus associate Alexander with Cyrus' feat or he has simply confused the two events.