Please post a justification for your chosen year.
Me?
To 323 B.C. so we could find out what really killed Alexander and also to hear of the deeds and memories of the past campaign and what is possible future plans for conquest would have been
If you had a time machine and had 1 year to.....
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conan
If you had a time machine and had 1 year to.....
If you could go back in time for just exactly one year and be an invisible fly on the wall around Alexander taking as many notes and facts and pics back with you during his life which year would you go back to?
Please post a justification for your chosen year.
Me?
To 323 B.C. so we could find out what really killed Alexander and also to hear of the deeds and memories of the past campaign and what is possible future plans for conquest would have been
Please post a justification for your chosen year.
Me?
To 323 B.C. so we could find out what really killed Alexander and also to hear of the deeds and memories of the past campaign and what is possible future plans for conquest would have been
Just after the march through the desert, where everyone meets up (Nearchus, Hephaestion etc arriving from their different tasks). So you've got that really cool atmosphere going on and everyone telling their stories, drinking, carrying on etc. Then on to Babylon and the laying out of new plans, campaigns etc. To see Alex and the army coming back into Babylon (How many days have i got left)??? If i've got time hang around for Alex's death and the aftermath. I would definately bring paternity tests with me (re: Alexander & Ptolemy Brothers??? Other post). I think this corresponds with your time frame Conan-give or take a few months. Do we have to be a fly?? I wouldn't mind joining in the conversations and asking subtle questons whilst asking Alex and frinds to smile for the camera!!-
conan
Be more than a fly my friend and you may change the course of there actions and in turn history. Who wouldn't be tempted to warn Alexander of his impending doom.
If it were indeed an assasination you could stop it and the world you return to would be a very different place.
Sorry people strictly fly on the wall...... with the ability to use a special 'fly camera' and 'note pad'
If it were indeed an assasination you could stop it and the world you return to would be a very different place.
Sorry people strictly fly on the wall...... with the ability to use a special 'fly camera' and 'note pad'
So it won't matter that while i'm buzzing around Alexanders head, he gets totally fed up with pestering oriental insects....and desides to march on to less insect infested places....NOT Babylon. Thus, i will come back to a changed world again!!! I can't win. So i might as well just fall into Alexanders poisoned wine (assuming assassination and method of killing). Then Aristander would have to come in and interpret what "a fly in the wine" means. By this stage the assassins would flee at the sight of the miraculous omen which put Alex off his wine.....because they know Aristander the great seer would reveal their evil plot.
Me! A fate is a fate is a fate - no matter the 'romances' that may spring up.conan wrote: Who wouldn't be tempted to warn Alexander of his impending doom.
G'day Conan.
I was going to leave this alone but, since I've harboured this dream since I was a kid, I've got to bite. Now, the story is this: not just a fly on a wall but a participant. It's a scenario I've often pondered: popping up in the Athenian assembly and arguing against the "Sicilian Expedition"; having failed, folowing Lamachus' advice and assebling the entire Athenian armament outside of Syracuse (yes, as a student of ancient history, I'd love to read Thucydides one day and find that the Athenians won) and if not, at least convincing the bastards not to execute the generals of Arginusae.
Now, to Alexander. My year would be 338. I would polish my argument well and demolish Demosthenes in the Assembly. My strategy would carry the day: Thebes and our mercenaries to take the field whilst Athens mans 150 or more triremes and sends some 8,000 - 10,000 hoplites into the Thermaic Gulf behind Philip's back.
Is there an Alexander to write about?
Paralus
Ἐπὶ τοὺς πατέρας, ὦ κακαὶ κεφαλαί, τοὺς μετὰ Φιλίππου καὶ Ἀλεξάνδρου τὰ ὅλα κατειργασμένους;
Wicked men, you sin against your fathers, who conquered the whole world under Philip and Alexander.
Academia.edu
Ἐπὶ τοὺς πατέρας, ὦ κακαὶ κεφαλαί, τοὺς μετὰ Φιλίππου καὶ Ἀλεξάνδρου τὰ ὅλα κατειργασμένους;
Wicked men, you sin against your fathers, who conquered the whole world under Philip and Alexander.
Academia.edu
Mutiny at Opis.
Hello,
I think that an truly peak moment to be a "fly" on the wall, would be the moment in Anatolia, when Alexander was either untieing the Gordian knot or cutting it with his sword- this I think is a moment when Alexander shows what a showman he is and knows how to use a local legend to motivate and push his men on.
Another, if I am allowed two, would of course be the Mutiny at Opis. I think that this is excellent because Alexander displays his true leadership- a weaker man would have capitulated. I think that his whole treatment of the problem was effective, spontaneous and brilliant- his response to the mutiny, the ensuing "improvised" speech etc etc.
Best regards and thanks for this great "topic"
Dean
I think that an truly peak moment to be a "fly" on the wall, would be the moment in Anatolia, when Alexander was either untieing the Gordian knot or cutting it with his sword- this I think is a moment when Alexander shows what a showman he is and knows how to use a local legend to motivate and push his men on.
Another, if I am allowed two, would of course be the Mutiny at Opis. I think that this is excellent because Alexander displays his true leadership- a weaker man would have capitulated. I think that his whole treatment of the problem was effective, spontaneous and brilliant- his response to the mutiny, the ensuing "improvised" speech etc etc.
Best regards and thanks for this great "topic"
Dean
Re: If you had a time machine and had 1 year to.....
I would want to be in Bactria during 327BC - to understand exactly what Alexander's motivations were for marrying Roxane, to find out exactly what happened in the Pages' Conspiracy, and to find out what sort of men Callisthenes and Anaxarchus really were.conan wrote:If you could go back in time for just exactly one year and be an invisible fly on the wall around Alexander taking as many notes and facts and pics back with you during his life which year would you go back to?
ATB
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rjones2818
- Pezhetairos (foot soldier)
- Posts: 80
- Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2006 10:26 am
Re: 1 year question
342-341 bc
Studying with the soon to be Great King and Aristotle. And maybe finding out if what they say about Alexander and Hephaistion was true!
Rex
Studying with the soon to be Great King and Aristotle. And maybe finding out if what they say about Alexander and Hephaistion was true!
Rex
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theaccursed
- Posts: 19
- Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2005 5:54 am
Hello critics. (Seems rather more fitting than "companions" or "pothosians").
This is a question I have, recently, quite often thought about. Being merely a fly on the wall would be, to me, rather pointless. But if I were only that, I guess I would chase away the other time travelling flies, at least those trying to spy on Alexander and Hephaestion, or Alexander and Bagoas, or Alexander and Roxanne...etc. The thought is revolting to me. Don't you people (those of you that this concerns) respect Alexander even that much?
Back to the question: What if I could go back in time and actually change things?
One obvious alternative would be to go back to, say 336 B.C., to the days just after the death of Phillip, and kill Alexander. Macedon would probably lose it's grip over it's conquered territories, and Athens - and Thebes - and Sparta, might attack - and Persia would probably remain a super power (and - who knows - perhaps eventually attack Greece, again) - but, at least, I would finally please the historians. The question, though, is: would they, ultimately, really want to live in the future where hellenism never happened, there never was any "imitatio Alexandri", and Persia remained The Empire? Perhaps they would. And if so - fine by me.
Still...I would, ultimately, not be able to do it. I'm no killer. So, instead, I'd send back Jona Lendering, with a loaded gun.
On the other hand...
What I really - really - would want - more than anything else - would be to send back, one at a time, the following historians: Worthington, Bosworth, Lendering, Prevas, Keegan, Hanson and probably a few more - and force them to do battle against Alexander. I'd give them command over an army of macedonians, an army of the same size and quality as the one that Alexander would command. And they would have to fight against him. There'd be no other option available. And I'd make sure that Alexander knew what they thought about him - that he's a clown, a failure, a worthless commander, a nothing.
He would be pissed. He would be pissed like hell! And then the battle would begin.
Thinking about it, I probably would send back Michael Park from this forum, too. Not that I really have anything against you, Mr. Park - I tend to appreciate your posts (even when I don't agree with you) but...you seem to think that going to war against Alexander would be "just wonderful" - and a piece of cake. That, essentially, anyone in Greece, and especially anyone of his generals, could easily have beaten him in battle - if they only had, like, "wanted to".
So...I'd make you put your money where your mouth is.
All in all, I think it would be very interesting. Would Worthington do a Demosthenes, drop everything and run from the battlefield, screaming like a woman? How would Hanson react to being beaten by a mere 20-something - him being so much "older and wiser", and having read so many books about war? Would Mr. Park still like the thought of going to war against Alexander when he himself would have to be one of the actual soldiers on the battlefield, in cuirass, with sword in his hand, heart pounding and legs shaking? And how would Lendering explain losing to such a loser? "It was the lunar eclipse, and the crows falling from the sky! Clearly, the omens were against me."?
Personally, I think it would be awesome. And, I must admit (even though I'm a pacifist), hilarious.
But - most of all - fair!
In fact, I'd send back anyone who think they'd actually stand a chance against Alexander. They'd all get their chance at the title - but they'd have to bet their lives.
This is a question I have, recently, quite often thought about. Being merely a fly on the wall would be, to me, rather pointless. But if I were only that, I guess I would chase away the other time travelling flies, at least those trying to spy on Alexander and Hephaestion, or Alexander and Bagoas, or Alexander and Roxanne...etc. The thought is revolting to me. Don't you people (those of you that this concerns) respect Alexander even that much?
Back to the question: What if I could go back in time and actually change things?
One obvious alternative would be to go back to, say 336 B.C., to the days just after the death of Phillip, and kill Alexander. Macedon would probably lose it's grip over it's conquered territories, and Athens - and Thebes - and Sparta, might attack - and Persia would probably remain a super power (and - who knows - perhaps eventually attack Greece, again) - but, at least, I would finally please the historians. The question, though, is: would they, ultimately, really want to live in the future where hellenism never happened, there never was any "imitatio Alexandri", and Persia remained The Empire? Perhaps they would. And if so - fine by me.
Still...I would, ultimately, not be able to do it. I'm no killer. So, instead, I'd send back Jona Lendering, with a loaded gun.
On the other hand...
What I really - really - would want - more than anything else - would be to send back, one at a time, the following historians: Worthington, Bosworth, Lendering, Prevas, Keegan, Hanson and probably a few more - and force them to do battle against Alexander. I'd give them command over an army of macedonians, an army of the same size and quality as the one that Alexander would command. And they would have to fight against him. There'd be no other option available. And I'd make sure that Alexander knew what they thought about him - that he's a clown, a failure, a worthless commander, a nothing.
He would be pissed. He would be pissed like hell! And then the battle would begin.
Thinking about it, I probably would send back Michael Park from this forum, too. Not that I really have anything against you, Mr. Park - I tend to appreciate your posts (even when I don't agree with you) but...you seem to think that going to war against Alexander would be "just wonderful" - and a piece of cake. That, essentially, anyone in Greece, and especially anyone of his generals, could easily have beaten him in battle - if they only had, like, "wanted to".
So...I'd make you put your money where your mouth is.
All in all, I think it would be very interesting. Would Worthington do a Demosthenes, drop everything and run from the battlefield, screaming like a woman? How would Hanson react to being beaten by a mere 20-something - him being so much "older and wiser", and having read so many books about war? Would Mr. Park still like the thought of going to war against Alexander when he himself would have to be one of the actual soldiers on the battlefield, in cuirass, with sword in his hand, heart pounding and legs shaking? And how would Lendering explain losing to such a loser? "It was the lunar eclipse, and the crows falling from the sky! Clearly, the omens were against me."?
Personally, I think it would be awesome. And, I must admit (even though I'm a pacifist), hilarious.
But - most of all - fair!
In fact, I'd send back anyone who think they'd actually stand a chance against Alexander. They'd all get their chance at the title - but they'd have to bet their lives.
Hello there "theaccursed".
What an entertaining game you've envisaged. Sending back historians indeed. Interesting list you've compiled too. VD Hanson tops the list methinks. This, of course, being the bloke who described Alexander as "a murderous little eighteen year old" who conducted a "rampage" through Achaemenid Empire.
I can't speak for all those luminaries you've listed, but it's difficult to recall Bosworth stating that Alexander was "a clown, a failure, a worthless commander, a nothing."
In any case, you've left out probably the most entertaining of all: WW Tarn. He might possibly assume the role of a second Callisthenes. Imagine the sport involved in watching the moral and linguistic gymnastics required to reconcile Thebes, Tyre, the murder of surrendering Greek mercenaries, Gaza, Bessus, Philotas, Parmenion, Clietus,Callisthenes, the satrapal purge, the looting, raping and burning of Persepolis, etc with the great civiliser and fomenter of the "brotherhood of man". Truly excellent.
I am not entirely certain that I would enjoy taking the field against Alexander, I must say. Just on which, "you seem to think that going to war against Alexander would be 'just wonderful' - and a piece of cake. That, essentially, anyone in Greece, and especially anyone of his generals, could easily have beaten him in battle - if they only had, like, 'wanted to'." Oh really? As I don't keep a file of all my posts, I can't claim with utter certainty that I've not written this, but you seem to have noticed it. Might you be able to point out where I have claimed such? For it is not a view I readily share.
To matters of form. You will notice that I've addressed you using your forum name, "theaccursed". Now, I have no problems with my name or the use of it. Indeed I may have posted it on this forum in the past (and was, if I recall, on the original login ID info on the old site?). Certainly it is no state secret and others in Australia are well aware of my posting here. That said, I do, however, find it highly ignorant that you would address me by my name whilst using a nom de plume yourself. Bad form "the accursed".
Identify yourself you cad!
What an entertaining game you've envisaged. Sending back historians indeed. Interesting list you've compiled too. VD Hanson tops the list methinks. This, of course, being the bloke who described Alexander as "a murderous little eighteen year old" who conducted a "rampage" through Achaemenid Empire.
I can't speak for all those luminaries you've listed, but it's difficult to recall Bosworth stating that Alexander was "a clown, a failure, a worthless commander, a nothing."
In any case, you've left out probably the most entertaining of all: WW Tarn. He might possibly assume the role of a second Callisthenes. Imagine the sport involved in watching the moral and linguistic gymnastics required to reconcile Thebes, Tyre, the murder of surrendering Greek mercenaries, Gaza, Bessus, Philotas, Parmenion, Clietus,Callisthenes, the satrapal purge, the looting, raping and burning of Persepolis, etc with the great civiliser and fomenter of the "brotherhood of man". Truly excellent.
I am not entirely certain that I would enjoy taking the field against Alexander, I must say. Just on which, "you seem to think that going to war against Alexander would be 'just wonderful' - and a piece of cake. That, essentially, anyone in Greece, and especially anyone of his generals, could easily have beaten him in battle - if they only had, like, 'wanted to'." Oh really? As I don't keep a file of all my posts, I can't claim with utter certainty that I've not written this, but you seem to have noticed it. Might you be able to point out where I have claimed such? For it is not a view I readily share.
To matters of form. You will notice that I've addressed you using your forum name, "theaccursed". Now, I have no problems with my name or the use of it. Indeed I may have posted it on this forum in the past (and was, if I recall, on the original login ID info on the old site?). Certainly it is no state secret and others in Australia are well aware of my posting here. That said, I do, however, find it highly ignorant that you would address me by my name whilst using a nom de plume yourself. Bad form "the accursed".
Identify yourself you cad!
Paralus
Ἐπὶ τοὺς πατέρας, ὦ κακαὶ κεφαλαί, τοὺς μετὰ Φιλίππου καὶ Ἀλεξάνδρου τὰ ὅλα κατειργασμένους;
Wicked men, you sin against your fathers, who conquered the whole world under Philip and Alexander.
Academia.edu
Ἐπὶ τοὺς πατέρας, ὦ κακαὶ κεφαλαί, τοὺς μετὰ Φιλίππου καὶ Ἀλεξάνδρου τὰ ὅλα κατειργασμένους;
Wicked men, you sin against your fathers, who conquered the whole world under Philip and Alexander.
Academia.edu
Split thread: Antipater's summons to Babylon
After Paralus's timely suggestion about a split thread, I have done the deed. It was difficult to know what to call it, so I plumped for "Antipater's summons to Babylon"; and it was also difficult to know where to make the split, as the new discussion arose out of theaccursed's response to the original question.
Apologies if it hasn't turned out quite as you would have wanted. I can but try ...
ATB
Marcus
Apologies if it hasn't turned out quite as you would have wanted. I can but try ...
ATB
Marcus