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Alexander friends
Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2003 5:04 am
by Kasia
What about the group of Alexander the Great team of friends?
I'm sure,than there were Hefajston(thats polish names of them,so I'm very sorry), Perddikas, Leonnatos, Ptolemeus... And the rest? I hear a lot of versions. Eumenes? what do you think about this?I'm sorry again for my english...
Kasia
Re: Alexander friends
Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2003 7:43 am
by maciek
HI Kasia!!
How nice to see someone from Poland here!
I have the same language problems as You but I have experienced that people here are very nice and they doesn't care about mistakes only shearing information.
Kasiu I think Eumenes was one of very importand friends of Alex. He is a little unestimated in sources in my opinion, but after Alex's death he showed all his abilities. During Alexander's ruling Eumenes was only a writer and (I believe) advisor.
Well also Parmenion until his death, Cleistos and Philotaswas were his close friends (companions). All those was kiled by Alex or on his order.
One of oldest and very close friends of Alex was Crateros. This man stayed beside Alex to his death and played huge (but short) role as well as Eumenes in diadochs wars.
Regards
Maciek
Re: Alexander friends
Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2003 8:43 am
by Tre
Ptolemy, Peithon, Perdiccas, Lysimachus, Seleukos, Hephaistion, Leonnatus were those closest to the King, i.e. his bodyguard.
Re: Alexander friends
Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2003 9:33 am
by maciek
Hi Tre!
I don't think that Seleukos was some his close friend. He was no importand person until Alex's death. Here is the list of Alexander companions (following Arrian)in time when he got back from India and Gedrosia:
Until this time they were: From Pella - Leonnatos, Hephajstion, Lisymachos, Aristonus. Outside Pella - Orontas from Orestida, Ptolemaios son of Lagos, Pejton son of Crateros - both from Eordai (I'm not sure how to write it).After battle in Malli's town Peucestas was added as eight'th member of that group. Regards
Maciek
Re: Alexander friends
Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2003 10:29 am
by Tre
I erred in trying to recall Arrian's list at the office (without my books, alas) by memory - yes, Aristonous replaces Seleukos on that list.
Re: Alexander friends
Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2003 11:29 am
by marcus
Hi Maciek and Tre,I don't agree with either of your lists, but we ought to be a bit careful about only assigning Alexander's 'bodyguards' as his 'friends' (not least because I disagree with the list(s) of bodyguards proposed, as Seleukos was never one of the somatophylakes) - and, indeed, what we mean by 'friends'. I would have proposed a much longer list, to include:Krateros, Philotas (until 330), Parmenion (until 330), Kleitos (until 328), Perdikkas, Peukestas, Seleukos, Lysimachos, Erigyios, Laomedon, Leonnatos, Eumenes, Harpalos, Aristander, Ptolemy (and at least one other Ptolemaios), Meleagros, Polyperchon, Antigonos... etc. etc. etc.And if the somatophylakes are included, then there's also Balakros, who was made satrap of Cilicia, (and a number of others whose names I can't recall offhand).All the bestMarcus
Re: Alexander friends
Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2003 2:39 pm
by Tre
Now Marcus, you are perfectly entitled to disagree, however those who were the bodyguard had the coveted positions most treasured and closest to the King. Yes he was certainly friends with others, but I'd bet my bottom dollars when push came to shove, it was these few who were closest (and were unassigned elsewhere).As for other bodyguard, they would have to die to be replaced, or assigned elsewhere a la satraps. Alexander had to follow the law of succession within the ranks too - for all we know the other ones may have held such positions with Philip first.
Re: Alexander friends
Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2003 8:19 pm
by H
Marcus
I'm interested in why you would place Parmenion amongst Alexander's friends. He could be counted among the King's companions, certainly, but friend? Do you really think that Alexander would have considered him in this way?
Regards
Halil
Re: Alexander friends
Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2003 9:14 pm
by Link
Hello Halil,
It is good to see you post again.
Parmenion!
Yes it is strange, he put Philotas as a friend as well.
Arrian, Dio or Plutarch(one of these) states when Philip severely reproached Alexander, he took with him Philotas to witness the event. Alexander would not have liked that.
Philota's youngest brother (he died in battle) was definitly a friend and he was closer to Alexander's age.Best Regards
Re: Alexander friends
Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2003 3:41 am
by marcus
Aha! Lovely to see I've provoked something here.I suppose my point really was: can we be clearer about what we mean by 'friend'? Tre, yes you are right about the list of bodyguards, but are we talking about a specific point in time, here? Because if we're not, then we have to include previous bodyguards, surely? If by 'friend' we mean Alexander's... I don't know... 'chums'(?) then it's a moot point indeed whether Philotas and Parmenion (for example) would be included. But in that case why didn't people list Thettalos the actor, Demaratos of Corinth etc. etc.You see, I don't disagree with any of the points made, except that we are possibly using very different definitions of the term 'friend'.Can a king have 'friends'?All the bestMarcus
Re: Alexander friends
Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2003 7:19 am
by mlygia
Marcus
You forgot Hephaistion. Why?
MLygia
Re: Alexander friends
Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2003 8:00 am
by marcus
Did I? Oh, nothing sinister, just that I was writing a long list and forgot - the list wasn't meant to be exhaustive. My personal dislike of Hephaistion had nothing to do with it, I promise :-)All the bestMarcus
Re: Alexander friends
Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2003 10:00 am
by H
MarcusI agree totally with you that we need to be careful to state our definition of what we mean by "friend" when we ask a question like this. In addition to some of the "lesser" characters you mention, I also think that Alexander had friends who were not "important", except to Alexander, and so never made it into any historical list or source. But, if you're just relying on the ancient sources, why the personal dislike of Hephaistion?Regards
Halil
Re: Alexander friends
Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2003 11:44 am
by marcus
Hi Halil,I don't think I can cite anything in particular in the ancient sources which make me dislike Hephaistion. I just think that overall he was a pretty nasty piece of work - arrogant, self-serving, jealous, petty, and probably quite a bad influence on Alexander.All the best (expecting a barrage from the philohephaistiones )Marcus
Re: Alexander friends
Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2003 12:52 pm
by Tre
Show me where it says that in the histories, Marcus :-)Regards,Tre