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Hi all
Mary Renault says that, after the Gedrosian march, Alexander received embassies from everywhere, including Carthaginians, Ethiopians and Kelts.
I think I read somewhere that, after becoming King, Alexander campaigned in the north of Macedon, reaching the Danube. He then crossed it, and attacked the peoples living there, in order to scare them and avoid their crossing southwards. I think these people were called Kelts in the source (though I am not sure). Can anyone help me with this?
Also, who are the Kelts mentioned by Renault? Where did they come from? the British Isles?
Thanks in advance
Best wishes
Alejandro

The people Alexander fought at the Danube (335 BC) were not Celts. They're called Triballians and some various other names, but nowhere they are referred to as Celts.However - in the years after Alexander's death the Celts were on the move and invaded and raided Macedonia and Greece. They were finally defeated by Gonatas (in 277 BC) and Antiochus Soter (in 273 or 270 BC). After subjugation these Celtic tribes became known as the Galatians and they settled in Asia Minor (around modern Ankara).So the Celtic 'nations' were busy expanding their living environment in the early days of Alexander's empire and its successors. These were central or eastern European Celts - not from the British Islands. I don't know what Renault's source is but I suppose its feasible to imagine these Celts as the direct neighbours of Alexander's northern fronteir in Europe. I think it wouldn't be too strange if they indeed did send messengers & such.Of course it is quite unclear if their 'nation' had some form of national administration, or nation state system. Regards -
Nick

Arrian mentions the Celts (Book 1,4): (the Danube) forms the frontier to the territories of some very warlike tribes.Most of them are of Celtic stock - indded, the source of the river is in Celtic territory .. And then, later in book 1,5 : The Celts of the Adriatic Sea also sent representatives ....
Alexander asked them what they were most afraid of - and they said that they were most afraid of the sky falling on their heads. Alexander remarked under his breath that the Celts thought too much of themselves.


This is the part that always thrills me - for the threat of the sky falling on them was an important part of the Celt's oaths - although Alexander and his retinue probably didn't know it.

So, whoever recorded it at the time must have been reporting correctly - and although it's 2300+ years later, it feels like an accurate glimpse of the past.
For those of you who know who Chicken Licken is, I think that story goes back to the same Celtic source.
I know of an old Celtic oath, paraphrased into modern language, although I don't know the source:

If I break faith with thee,
May the green grass gape & swallow me,
May the grey seas roll over me,
May the sky of stars fall on me and crush the life out of me.

While this is a modern paraphrase, the sentiment seems the same and I think Alexander heard something like this.



Susan

Hi, I just read that Danube crossing as it reminds me of Washington crossing the Delaware in the beginning of the Revolution. It is fascinating to me to compare the manner in which Alexander crosses the Danube, and a millenium later, Washington crosses the Delaware in a similar fashion. Oddly enough, I had been reading about both at about the same time. No wonder, Alexandria, Va. is situated right next to Washington, DC.Our Glorious Cause is the source for Washington's corssing and Weigall's Alexander is the source for Alexander's crossing. A unique comparison!Thanks!Jan

Jan,The story of Alexander meeting the Kelts on the Danube (related by Ptolemy?) was that Alexander asked the Kelts what they feared most, hoping they would say, "You." But the Kelts dissappointed Alexander (who saw that Alexander was headed off towards other foes), and they said the only thing they feared was that the sky might fall on their heads. Alexander politely thanked them for coming to him for friendship, then, as he walked away, said under his breath, "What a bunch of braggarts these Kelts are!"I've already pointed out via "Star Wars" who Isocrates was; through "Lost in Space" (travelling on the spaceship "Jupiter") who Demosthenes was, and a while back that Alexander was possibly the son of Zeus (Jupiter), returning reborn at the end of "2001: A Space Odyssey," traveling from Jupiter into the earth's atmosphere.Guess what music they used to wrap up "2001: A Space Odyssey," after they cut away from the born again son of Jupiter coming towards earth? - "The Blue Danube," by Johann Strauss.Look, Kelts, up in the sky, is it a bird, a plane...No, I still haven't figured out how to get him from just beyond the earth's atmosphere down to the ground, and survive re-entry without burning up. You laughed at my last idea - getting into a re-entry vehicle, I think I said.Maybe if he just brought the sky down with him?John

Hi John,I remember. You wondered at my own reentry after I discussed my dream about the Battle of Issus. :-)I loved that dream and can see it still. It becomes a part of one's psyche somehow.I love the music from your movie Space Odyssey, especially the opening. Strauss is a bit of a stretch. But the monolith is what caused all the discussion when I saw it. What do you think it meant?I had a recent visit to Persepolis via the self hypnosis method and consequently, have been searching it out. I found a great book by donald wilber who has taken many pictures of the site.There is a reconstruction of the site on the internet, and I was rather astounded to see how well it is has been portrayed in the Gate of All Nations. I found all links through Google search engines, and have explored most. Some site went to great effort to produce a lot of images and I kept overlooking them until after I realized that they are so close to what I had seen. When I find them again, I will give the website url.I seem to have seen many rooms while at Persepolis, and I try to lock these memories into my mind, but sometimes they escape me. However, I believe that one can find proof positive if one knows the right sources.Why and how anyone could link Alexander to Space Odyssey is more than I can imagine. But o.k.?Jan

The site that I am referring to in above post is http://www.persepolis3d.com. This is a site that is very interesting and the images of the reconstruction look very close to what I had seen while I relived the first time I had entered that city. believe it or not, like ripley likes to say. I kept overlooking this set of images passing them by until it finally dawned on me that they look similar to the gate that I had seen. What a dummy I thought to myself! How could I have not seen these? But upon closer examination, I realized why they are almost exactly like the gateway that I had passed through, with lots of people all around.
It really amazes me to think that this company has so well reconstructed this area, and while there are differences, especially coloration, and I am more interested in other things, this is an area which is so close to my recollection that it is uncanny. Like I said, this kind of stuff does support and prove that one can with the right people prove one's self. I actually had many scenes that I have found through the Wilber book, because the place is astounding. In the throne room, there is a scene that I saw clearly and as it is in such contrast it made an impression on me as the size of the sculpted figures are so unusual in their being small rather than gigantic. I became fully convinced after comparing the "dream" sequence to the photographs that memory served me very well. I recall the emotional feelings as I was truly awed. It is a fantastic experience to see all these exquisite artworks and sculptures, and then to see them in ruins is absolutely amazing.I am really hopeful that I will one day see it all in person.Jan

I link Alexander to "2001: A Space Odyssey" because of the son of Zeus (Jupiter) thing. In the movie they go out to Jupiter, where the monolith is, and what comes back to earth is a fetus - the son of Jupiter, get it?Of course, it doesn't mean it's Alexander, since there is more than one son of Zeus, but in the "Time Odyssey" book coming out this year by Arthur C. Clarke, they go back in time to Alexander the Great, and show him how to avoid his pre-mature death. They even involve with Mr. Logic himself, Aristotle. Here's a link:http://www.revolutionsf.com/article/341.htmlAs for the Blue Danube music, I agree. Boring. So soft and quiet. It's the calm before the storm. When Alexander crossed the Danube, he did so at night, very quietly, so that when he reached the other side, he surprised the enemy in the morning, killing many of them while they slept.John

Here's a better link to the "2001: A Space Odyssey" - Alexander link:http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASI ... 75309/John