pothos.org

In my research travels on Alexander I have gone down my side alleys, etc., and come across some interesting little tidbits. This is one I recently came across and thought I'd share. There is so much controversy over every aspect of Alexander's life, including his birthday, no seems to be able to decide - though many have speculated, etc., too bad he can't just tell us all. Anyway, this particular article on the included site is quite interesting.

If you are looking for something a bit more "out there" try this site. This particular horoscope discusses the concept of "soul rays". It's better to read the article and horoscope for oneself to understand what soul rays are in connection to astrology and particular historical individuals. It is fascinating, though the author's idea of "soul rays" and Alexander's being assigned a "soul ray" that the author also assigns to such other historical persons of warlike natures as: Julius Caesar, Napolean, Hitler, etc. is a interesting thought. Personally, I wouldn't really put Alexander in category with any of those individuals. I think he was truly unique, and perhaps misunderstood, esp. from the perspective of the present day where war and conquest is considered more negative than it was in past centuries (although we sure still seem to have as much miltiary conflict as ever???)

I'm not making fun of horoscopes, I know for the ancient world and many today they are quite a serious tool in understanding a person's innder motivations and drives. With an historical figure like Alexander, no doubt several must have been cast during his lifetime. It is an interesting bit of information to study to try to glean just a bit more of an understanding of this complex, multi-faceted and multi-talented man. Enjoy! I know I have!

Lysis

Hi Lysis,

I hope you don't mind, but I have edited your post to create hyperlinks to the two sites, just to make it a bit easier for people to link to them if they wish to read.

ATB

Perhaps "Off Topic" might be better?

I never was one for horoscopes.

Hi Marcus, et al.

No problem putting this topic "OFF TOPIC" I wasn't exactly sure where to post it. Just wanted to share it with anyone who might find it interesting.

Lysis

lysis56 wrote:Hi Marcus, et al.

No problem putting this topic "OFF TOPIC" I wasn't exactly sure where to post it. Just wanted to share it with anyone who might find it interesting.

Lysis

Not sure it really needs to go off-topic. It is, after all, "about Alexander the Great". OK, so it's not ... er ... the usual sort of thing, but ...

ATB

Hi Marcus & anyone else who wonders about this post,

I realize a post on Alexander's possible "horoscope" seems a bit odd. However, if we are to understand the man, how can we leave any stone unturned, even those a bit further out of the way, in our goal? Horoscopes may seem odd as a choice of interest to investigate, but they do give us an interesting window in which to peer through. Granted since no one knows for such Alexander's true date and time of birth this may seem moot, but it still has some value, if for the sake of its own interest.

When I first came across some of the horoscopes and accompanying articles on Alexander I just burst out laughing so hard I scared my dog (which is really hard to do - he's a 100 pd. shepard/lab) anyway, the point is in Alexander's day such things as horoscopes and seers, etc. were taken quite seriously. I recall reading in the Alexander Romance wherein his mother, Olympias is urged to hold off giving birth to him until the astrological signs were in a certain alignment - as this would foretell his greatness, etc. Yes, the Alexander Romance is considered by some more a trashy novel than serious literature on Alexander, but I believe there are nuggets of truth invested within it. It was the most popular book for several centuries, more than the Christian Bible, so that says something about the importance of Alexander and his legend.

I know that in today's world which is more Christian and Islamic oriented horoscopes may be frowned upon as being considered "witchery". I have certainly heard them considered as such in certain parts of the Southern US. However, in other parts of the world, such as the East they are not. So, when I first began my researches on all things Alexander and came across these articles I thought they were just a fun thing. However, what is important to consider is how he would have taken them. For example, how much about his birth is propaganda he created or was advised to created on the part of savy seers, advisors (perhaps like Hephaistion) etc., to aid in the myth of his divine origins. Recall the burning of the temple of Artemis at Ephesus, his father's horse wining in the Olympics, etc. Also, the Chaldean Astrological Diaries, do in fact make note of an individual coming from the West (Alexander) who would bring the destruction of the Persian Empire. I understand such same Diaries also foretold his death. So, such things as horoscopes were of great import not only in his day, but before that. We know the Chaldeans were expert astronomers and astrologers who watched the skies and recorded and intereprted what they saw for centuries. So, there is a long standing tradition in the ancient world given to the importance of such things. How much credence he would have given them, we can only speculate. However, considering how scrupulous and pious he was with regard to the honor of the Gods and the acheievement of his own goals, I can see him utilizaing horoscopes as a tool to further his destiny. It was something that has been done for centuries. Here in the US our former President Ronald Regan was known to frequent astrologers and such. Napoleon Bonaparte was well known to utilize the services of one Madame Lenormand, a fortuneteller of some fame who apparently foretold his demise on Elba.

So, I guess my argument is how would Alexander have utilized horoscopes? I think as he did with everything have taken full advantage of their importance and milked them for all they were worth. It is unfortunate we do not, in fact, have more information about his childhood as that would give us more source material on his actual birthday, etc. Perhaps that would give us a bit more insight into his fascinating personality. For me, one of the things that fascinates me about Alexander, the man so much is that while he was in some ways so terribly human in his actions and needs in other ways, he was truly unique and incomprehensible. Therefore, any tools, even if they may seem somewhat frivolous to some, ought to be considered for the worth he might have applied to them. This given us another view of the man and his motivations.

That's all, just wanted to explain the reason for this post. The sharing of information is always helpful, you never know what you may learn!

Lysis

Napoleon Bonaparte was well known to utilize the services of one Madame Lenormand, a fortuneteller of some fame who apparently foretold his demise on Elba.

Which says all that need be said about astrology....he died on St Helena! He escaped Elba so that wargamers could have fun re-fighting Waterloo!

I have not read the article you have posted but sometimes there is a sensible discussion of his birthdate and one even produced some ancient evidence, a graffitto horoscope from Doura Europus of which I had been ignorant. That said, they are clearly not going to shed light on Alexander's character because bunk is all they can ever be and sadly they are thoroughly modern and totally divorced from their Chaldean roots so they cannot comment on what the ancient interpretation of his alignments would have been.

I have to take the blame for the error that agesilaos attributed to Madame Lenormand re Napoleon's death. I got Elba and St. Helena mixed up.

Lysis

Well done for accepting your error but that cannot exonerate the medium. There would need to be much more evidence of when these prophesies occurred; just as the bible prophecies can be shown to bw retrospective,so might these

There is no reason, indeed, one might wonder if one took any of the modern horoscopes on Alexander seriously. However, I thought they were a fun topic. They do relate to Alexander in that it shows how much he still, after some 2,500 years is influencing and driving people to various forms of mania, serious and otherwise. Perhaps those of us who are willing to go down any historical side alley and/or will crawl up the maze of imaginary drain pipes of various minuita, which might or might not yield a nuggest in search of information however far out there it might be regarding Alexander are similiar to those Alexanderphiles who go on endlessly - it would seem arguing over the obscurity of a word found or not found in various ancient sources regarding various aspects of the histories as written or not written by Arrian, Curtius, etc. I guess we all have our weaknesses, I confess mine are when I'm exhausted by the serious stuff in my reasearch I will combat the battle fatigue with things - well, yeah, silly. I really love it when Alexander is made fun of as in Horrible Histories. Now that was really twisted evil, but I so enjoyed it!

It would be nice if a horoscope cast in his actual lifetime were discovered, but that hasn't happened. The first article which I came across indicated some reference to possible ancient discovery, but upon reading the article, it was clear the info. wasn't really appropriate to being considered "ancient'. Still human nature being what it is, full of curiousity, I read on and thought, what the Haides, I'd share it and maybe someone else might find the stuff interesting, albeit not to be taken seriously.

And, I agree with you agesiloas, to take such modern interpretations of horoscopes on him seriously are akin to believing biblical prophesies, which are... well, best leave that subject alone. Just like those biblical prop...ah, well, there's a lot of stuff out there on Alexander and some of it is good entertainment. It's good to lighten up once in a while even when pursing a subject as fascinating as Alexander whom I can't help but believe knew how to have a good time when the serious stuff was over with.

Lysis

I love horoscopes....they are so meaningless, but some few have some merit. Frankly, the idea that each person at birth is governed by the time of day or night and the stars and planets is too incredulous for me to believe. But there is no doubt that the ancients to modern day have believed and been influenced by the position of the stars and planets in the Heavens....Heaven Only Knows is my favorite book on the subject.

Well, now I have read the piece and there was something I did not know; the date in Loos that the Emperor acceded! Thereafter it descended into fantasy and most of the method was goal-oriented but that extra parallel for Loos was very worth it.