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Dear all,

This is something that has appeared at long and irregular intervals for some time.

Ages ago now, Karl Soundy very kindly provided some translation of the Metz Epitome. I have a number of sections also that were reproduced in Heckel and Yardley's sourcebook.

However, there are parts of the Epitome that I am missing, and I wonder if anyone has either the original Latin, or English translation, or both (preferably), of those missing parts?

The missing sections are: 32-38, 46-52, 63-69, and 71-86. (I should add that I know what some of these sections cover, and some of the details, but I just don't have the actual text.)

It might be a shot in the dark, but if anyone can help ...

ATB

marcus wrote:Dear all,

This is something that has appeared at long and irregular intervals for some time.

Ages ago now, Karl Soundy very kindly provided some translation of the Metz Epitome. I have a number of sections also that were reproduced in Heckel and Yardley's sourcebook.

However, there are parts of the Epitome that I am missing, and I wonder if anyone has either the original Latin, or English translation, or both (preferably), of those missing parts?

The missing sections are: 32-38, 46-52, 63-69, and 71-86. (I should add that I know what some of these sections cover, and some of the details, but I just don't have the actual text.)

It might be a shot in the dark, but if anyone can help ...

ATB

Hi Marcus,

Regarding the Latin text, do you know that it is currently for sale online (various book-sites) from as little as $15 (Amazon Germany) in the Teubner editions (1960 and revised 1966) by P H Thomas under the title of “Incerti Auctoris Epitoma Rerum Gestarum Alexandri Magni Cum Libro De Morte Testamentoque Alexandri” (An Epitome of the Deeds of Alexander the Great with the Book of Alexander’s Death and Will by an Unknown Author)?

Regarding the Karl Soundy translation (available online at this link: http://websfor.org/alexander/home/home.asp?A710), obviously it was a worthy thing to attempt a translation of this tricky bit of Latin, but I should caution you that the results are often a bit inaccurate. For example:-

Karl translates Metz 15 as “A mass of people from these regions, driven by fear, rushed to a certain mountain and fled to its heights, for its altitude was daunting to behold; for it rose no less than twenty stadia from base to summit. This was accessible by one place, a cave where stalactites were falling.”
The Latin of the last sentence is: …eo aditus uno loco per speluncam patebat, reliquae partes inpendentibus saxis erant praeruptae.
What this actually appears to mean is: “…only one place through a cave presented access, the remaining parts being precipitous with overhanging rocks.”

Karl translates Metz 19 as “There he made treaty with Sisimithres, who, in accordance with barbarian custom, brought forth his mother, two sons and three daughters.”
The Latin text of this is: …ibi cum Sisimithre, qui more barbaro e matre sua duos filios et tres filias produxerat, foedus fecit.
What this actually appears to mean is: “…there, with Sisimithres, who in the barbarian fashion had fathered two sons and three daughters on his own mother, he made a pact.”

Karl translates Metz 30 as “‘Why,’ he said ‘are you Macedones not great breeders and surely if you embrace the conquered in friendship, will your rule not last forever? That is what I am going to do and whomsoever of the other Macedonians chooses to do the same I shall take care of.’”
The Latin text of this is: “Quare,” inquit, “neque Macedones vobis genere antestare neque vos, si victi in amicitiam venissetis, adfinitate indignos ducerem. Hoc cum ego <fecero>, idem quoque ut ceteri faciant Macedones curabo.”
What this actually appears to mean is: “So,” he said, “the Macedonians are not a better breed than you and nor, even if you would come into alliance with us as losers, do I believe you to be unworthy of intermarriage with us. I am going to make such (a marriage) myself and I shall have a care that the other Macedonians do the same also.”

Best wishes,

Andrew

Taphoi wrote: Hi Marcus,

Regarding the Latin text, do you know that it is currently for sale online (various book-sites) from as little as $15 (Amazon Germany) in the Teubner editions (1960 and revised 1966) by P H Thomas under the title of “Incerti Auctoris Epitoma Rerum Gestarum Alexandri Magni Cum Libro De Morte Testamentoque Alexandri” (An Epitome of the Deeds of Alexander the Great with the Book of Alexander’s Death and Will by an Unknown Author)?

Regarding the Karl Soundy translation (available online at this link: http://websfor.org/alexander/home/home.asp?A710), obviously it was a worthy thing to attempt a translation of this tricky bit of Latin, but I should caution you that the results are often a bit inaccurate. For example:-

Karl translates Metz 15 as “A mass of people from these regions, driven by fear, rushed to a certain mountain and fled to its heights, for its altitude was daunting to behold; for it rose no less than twenty stadia from base to summit. This was accessible by one place, a cave where stalactites were falling.”
The Latin of the last sentence is: …eo aditus uno loco per speluncam patebat, reliquae partes inpendentibus saxis erant praeruptae.
What this actually appears to mean is: “…only one place through a cave presented access, the remaining parts being precipitous with overhanging rocks.”

Karl translates Metz 19 as “There he made treaty with Sisimithres, who, in accordance with barbarian custom, brought forth his mother, two sons and three daughters.”
The Latin text of this is: …ibi cum Sisimithre, qui more barbaro e matre sua duos filios et tres filias produxerat, foedus fecit.
What this actually appears to mean is: “…there, with Sisimithres, who in the barbarian fashion had fathered two sons and three daughters on his own mother, he made a pact.”

Karl translates Metz 30 as “‘Why,’ he said ‘are you Macedones not great breeders and surely if you embrace the conquered in friendship, will your rule not last forever? That is what I am going to do and whomsoever of the other Macedonians chooses to do the same I shall take care of.’”
The Latin text of this is: “Quare,” inquit, “neque Macedones vobis genere antestare neque vos, si victi in amicitiam venissetis, adfinitate indignos ducerem. Hoc cum ego <fecero>, idem quoque ut ceteri faciant Macedones curabo.”
What this actually appears to mean is: “So,” he said, “the Macedonians are not a better breed than you and nor, even if you would come into alliance with us as losers, do I believe you to be unworthy of intermarriage with us. I am going to make such (a marriage) myself and I shall have a care that the other Macedonians do the same also.”

Best wishes,

Andrew

Hi Andrew,

Thanks for letting me know about the Teubner edition - I didn't realise it was available, as when I did a search nothing came up. It might have been the key words I used, though ...

For all the possible inaccuracies, Karl's translation is still better than I would have done! My Latin is far too rusty to attempt it (although I was going to get my brother and sister-in-law to help if I at least got a Latin version, as they both took their degrees in straight Classics). Most of my English version of the ME is taken from the Heckel sourcebook, hence having the majority of it.

Apparently John Yardley is currently doing a translation of the epitome for the Oxford University Press ... but it hasn't appeared yet. These things can take time!

ATB

Taphoi wrote:The Latin text of this is: “Quare,” inquit, “neque Macedones vobis genere antestare neque vos, si victi in amicitiam venissetis, adfinitate indignos ducerem. Hoc cum ego <fecero>, idem quoque ut ceteri faciant Macedones curabo.”
What this actually appears to mean is: “So,” he said, “the Macedonians are not a better breed than you and nor, even if you would come into alliance with us as losers, do I believe you to be unworthy of intermarriage with us. I am going to make such (a marriage) myself and I shall have a care that the other Macedonians do the same also.”

Oh yes, I forgot to say ... how about you do a translation of the whole thing for us?

ATB

I did make a disclaimer that this translation was only stop gap school boy Latin, but I guess that Susan thought I meant that for her personal consumption rather than my public humiliation. Any improvements would certainly be welcomed by me and I think Susan can edit it on the site, there is a link for contacts.

I have the very Teubner of which Andrew speaks and I think it is now out of print after a short and innaccurate print run; speech marks come out as ,, double commas. I was thinking of re-typing it and translating the footnotes/ap crit which are all in Latin anyway but am unclear if it is out of copyright; I could scan the passages you lack and send them to you if you would like.

marcus wrote: Oh yes, I forgot to say ... how about you do a translation of the whole thing for us?

I already have. The whole of the Metz Epitome is now incorporated into my Reconstruction of Cleitarchus (excluding the Liber de Morte, which does not appear to be from Cleitarchus). The second half (sections 32-86) is wound into Alexander the Great in India, which is available through Amazon and other online booksellers. The first half (sections 1-32) is now incorporated into Alexander the Great in Afghanistan, which I expect to be available from about the middle of 2011. If you had the Latin text, you'd probably be able to work out which bits come from the Metz and there is an episode by episode list of sources in the books too.

Best wishes,

Andrew

Taphoi wrote:

marcus wrote: Oh yes, I forgot to say ... how about you do a translation of the whole thing for us?

I already have. The whole of the Metz Epitome is now incorporated into my Reconstruction of Cleitarchus (excluding the Liber de Morte, which does not appear to be from Cleitarchus). The second half (sections 32-86) is wound into Alexander the Great in India, which is available through Amazon and other online booksellers. The first half (sections 1-32) is now incorporated into Alexander the Great in Afghanistan, which I expect to be available from about the middle of 2011. If you had the Latin text, you'd probably be able to work out which bits come from the Metz and there is an episode by episode list of sources in the books too.

Best wishes,

Andrew

Well, as I have your India book, I can go through that for the bits I'm missing from 32-86. I suppose I'll have to wait for "Afghanistan" to come out ...

Cheers!

ATB

marcus wrote:
Apparently John Yardley is currently doing a translation of the epitome for the Oxford University Press ... but it hasn't appeared yet. These things can take time!

Also, Elizabeth Baynham had an Equity Research Fellowship grant in 2009 to research "The Historiography of Alexander the Great: the Metz Epitome". It seems to take at least two years for the publication of papers presented at an Alexander conference so I've no idea when (or where) we might see the results of Baynham's research. Am looking forward to it though.

Best regards,

I can confirm Liz is working on a trans and commentary of the Metz as we speak. With the glacial pace of publication these days though, it's hard to say when it will be available.. cheers Pat