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Hello to all Pothosians

The prefecture of Thessaloniki will commemorate the anniversary of Alexanderäs death on 12th June in front of his statue at the beach promenade at 20:00 o'clock. I will take videos. If someone of you happens to be in Greece right now, then come.

I much prefer to remember that which matters: the assassination of Yithzak Rabin (4/11/1995) and the associated peace process. The death of a conqueror does not inspire much of anything within me I'm afraid...

Paralus wrote:The death of a conqueror does not inspire much of anything within me I'm afraid...

BOO!

It's Alexander! ...And he was much more than a simple conqueror

rocktupac wrote:

Paralus wrote:The death of a conqueror does not inspire much of anything within me I'm afraid...

BOO!

It's Alexander! ...And he was much more than a simple conqueror

True. A robber, too, and a murderer. An alcoholic. An incompetent administrator and a failed empire builder. Not to mention a delusional madman. Undoubtedly far more than a simple conqueror.

Well wherever you stand on him...seems he did gain that eternal glory he wanted. It's 2332* years since his death. Countries go at each like idiots over his legacy, and scholars certainly can't decide who he was.

*I'm not a math whiz.

the_accursed wrote:

rocktupac wrote:

Paralus wrote:The death of a conqueror does not inspire much of anything within me I'm afraid...

BOO!

It's Alexander! ...And he was much more than a simple conqueror

True. A robber, too, and a murderer. An alcoholic. An incompetent administrator and a failed empire builder. Not to mention a delusional madman. Undoubtedly far more than a simple conqueror.

One way to look at it...

...You forgot that he also loved to read

rocktupac wrote:

Paralus wrote:The death of a conqueror does not inspire much of anything within me I'm afraid...

BOO!

It's Alexander! ...And he was much more than a simple conqueror

I COUNTER your BOO! Consider it neutralised.

Semiramis wrote:

rocktupac wrote:

Paralus wrote:The death of a conqueror does not inspire much of anything within me I'm afraid...

BOO!

It's Alexander! ...And he was much more than a simple conqueror

I COUNTER your BOO! Consider it neutralised.

Grrr!

the_accursed wrote:

rocktupac wrote:

Paralus wrote:The death of a conqueror does not inspire much of anything within me I'm afraid...

BOO!

It's Alexander! ...And he was much more than a simple conqueror

True. A robber, too, and a murderer. An alcoholic. An incompetent administrator and a failed empire builder. Not to mention a delusional madman. Undoubtedly far more than a simple conqueror.

Blasphemy!

the accursed wrote: True. A robber, too, and a murderer. An alcoholic. An incompetent administrator and a failed empire builder. Not to mention a delusional madman. Undoubtedly far more than a simple conqueror.

Apologies to Paralus, I misquoted

By our standards, maybe not his.

Robber = spoils of war
Murderer = Cleitus - loss of self-control; Parmenion, Philotas, etc political murders and no worse than his contemporaries
Alcoholic = culturally heavy drinker, no worse than his contemporaries - don't think there's any evidence he drank heavily every day
incompetent administrator = he certainly knew how to administer the logistics of a very large army on the move, had the sense to leave local governors in place with Macedonians/Greeks in control of security/treasuries, and didn't really have time to prove whether he could administer an empire.
failed empire builder = ran out of time. He only got as far as consolidating his hold on the Persian empire
delusional madman = debatable. If self-proclaimed god = madman, then so was Philip
simple conqueror = still famous

But then you knew all that

Alexias wrote:

Paralus wrote: True. A robber, too, and a murderer. An alcoholic. An incompetent administrator and a failed empire builder. Not to mention a delusional madman. Undoubtedly far more than a simple conqueror.

By our standards, maybe not his.

Robber = spoils of war
Murderer = Cleitus - loss of self-control; Parmenion, Philotas, etc political murders and no worse than his contemporaries
Alcoholic = culturally heavy drinker, no worse than his contemporaries - don't think there's any evidence he drank heavily every day
incompetent administrator = he certainly knew how to administer the logistics of a very large army on the move, had the sense to leave local governors in place with Macedonians/Greeks in control of security/treasuries, and didn't really have time to prove whether he could administer an empire.
failed empire builder = ran out of time. He only got as far as consolidating his hold on the Persian empire
delusional madman = debatable. If self-proclaimed god = madman, then so was Philip
simple conqueror = still famous

But then you knew all that

Three cheers!

Funny how there's always an excuse for every atrocity Alexander ever committed. Somehow, nothing was never really his fault.

I think it would be nice if, for once, people would give some thought to Alexander's victims, and commemorate them, rather than their glamorous killer. The men who never returned to their families, or returned as invalids. The women who were raped and murdered or sold into slavery. The children who were made orphans, and who's homes were burnt to the ground. Their lives were real too.

But I'm guessing I get no cheers for such an atrocious suggestion.

the_accursed wrote:Funny how there's always an excuse for every atrocity Alexander ever committed. Somehow, nothing was never really his fault.

I think it would be nice if, for once, people would give some thought to Alexander's victims, and commemorate them, rather than their glamorous killer. The men who never returned to their families, or returned as invalids. The women who were raped and murdered or sold into slavery. The children who were made orphans, and who's homes were burnt to the ground. Their lives were real too.

But I'm guessing I get no cheers for such an atrocious suggestion.

Accursed,

There are usually two types of excuses.

1. The "everybody did it back then" line of apologia. That's the one where you will be accused of not putting things into context etc. etc. You would think that no ancients thought twice about shedding blood. I would've guessed that if everyone who lived during that time period was as driven to killing fellow human beings as Alexander, the species would have ended exactly then.

2. The "They had it coming" school of thought. They being the dead and enslaved of course. This argument usually involves tarring the victims. Their own history of conflicts (and even conflicts that took place post-Alexander in the region) will be dragged out, their commitment to being peaceniks questioned, their morality judged and invariably found wanting, so on and so forth. All through, there will be a strong whiff of "Who would want to feel sorry for Those people anyway".

So, no cheers for you. And sadly, I can only use my BOO countering powers once.

rocktupac wrote:

agesilaos wrote:True. A robber, too, and a murderer. An alcoholic. An incompetent administrator and a failed empire builder. Not to mention a delusional madman. Undoubtedly far more than a simple conqueror.

One way to look at it...

...You forgot that he also loved to read

Surely a golden sticker or something would have sufficed? I used to love those in first grade reading class.

the_accursed wrote:I think it would be nice if, for once, people would give some thought to Alexander's victims, and commemorate them, rather than their glamorous killer.

And in the interests of balance, which I can see is a special concern for you, perhaps we should also give some thought to Alexander's beneficiaries: the millions of people in the succeeding centuries that lived longer, richer and more fulfilled lives due to the economic, scientific and cultural boosts from his deliberate policies of building superb new cities, sponsoring philosophers, opening up and protecting new international trade routes and putting the contents of the Persian and Indian treasure houses into public circulation. Remember also his contribution to democracy and freedom of speech by replacing the oligarchies of the Ionian cities with democratic governments. And what a loss he would be to art!

Best wishes,

Andrew