pothos.org

Does anyone know what is on the chest-piece of Philip's armor? It's hard to make it out from the picture here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Phil ... on_CdM.jpg (click picture to enlarge)

But it looks like a winged person (a god?) of some kind helping or holding another person laying on their side. Thanks for the help!

I have seen the victory medal of Philip II at Tarsus many times, but have never stopped long enough to consider who or what the winged person is. Since you mention a god, my first guess would have to be Nike (who I commonly picture as Winged Victory of Samothrace). After all, it is a victory medal.

It looks like a Winged god holding a dead or dying soldier person.

Maybe Achiles on his way to the gods and the roots of Philips and Alexanders beliefs

kenny

Nike would seem fitting, and nothing too out of the ordinary. But it strikes me odd that there is another figure beside the winged person. And it looks like the winged person is helping them. I suppose it could portray Nike suggestively helping Philip with the victory.

And as for Achilles, I would think it'd be uncommon for Philip to have an ancestor of his wife Olympias on his armor. Philip was not directly linked to Achilles that I know of. And I don't think I've ever heard of Philip being as obsessed with him as Alexander was either. But I could be wrong.

When I zoomed in on the picture using image editing software I was able to notice what look like breasts and long hair on the winged person. It most definitely looks feminine. And the figure on the ground is almost certainly male, too. Apart from the short hair, male genitalia can be made out.

Yes, it does seem to be strange that the woman figure is carrying a man. Especially in a victory medal, I would imagine Philip II would want his face to be the most important aspect. A bit humbling to say Nike lifted you into victory. I still feel like it's Nike, but I can't be sure. It's much too early to start thinking about angels. It must be a goddess in my opinion. What other goddess is commonly portrayed with wings?

That would be quite diminishing to Philip's person if he were suggesting Nike was responsible for the victory, instead of himself. And I too think it must be a goddess.

There are many deities that are sometimes shown with wings, but the one that seems most plausible to me is Nemesis, the goddess of vengeance and retribution. A great statue of her could be seen in northeast Attica, the province which contains Athens, that was constructed after the defeat of the Persians at the Battle of Marathon. Having Nemesis portrayed on Philip's armor, on a victory medal no less, could have been a reminder for the Athenian victory over Persia, which Philip coincidentally had his eye on, not to mention the recent victory of Philip's.

It also could be the Sphinx, although more unlikely, but still mildly attractive. The Sphinx would carry fallen soldiers off the battlefield. Though it's hard to imagine Philip's wanting to advertise a slain soldier during battle. As seen here: http://fvankeur.myweb.uga.edu/classical ... hinx1.html

rocktupac wrote:Nike would seem fitting, and nothing too out of the ordinary. But it strikes me odd that there is another figure beside the winged person. And it looks like the winged person is helping them. I suppose it could portray Nike suggestively helping Philip with the victory.

Vergina Sun wrote:Yes, it does seem to be strange that the woman figure is carrying a man. Especially in a victory medal, I would imagine Philip II would want his face to be the most important aspect. A bit humbling to say Nike lifted you into victory. I still feel like it's Nike, but I can't be sure. It's much too early to start thinking about angels. It must be a goddess in my opinion. What other goddess is commonly portrayed with wings?

rocktupac wrote:That would be quite diminishing to Philip's person if he were suggesting Nike was responsible for the victory, instead of himself. And I too think it must be a goddess.

Just my quick thoughts (as I admit to being no authority on coinage ), but it still could be Nike. She was shown on at least one of Philip's coins (look under the chariot). I don't know why Nike seems to be assisting a man in the medallion, but according to the website it was minted in the 2nd Century AD and Philip wouldn't have had much say as to how and with whom he was depicted.

The clues might lie more with Alexander Severus because the medallion is presumed to have been minted during his reign. Unfortunately, not much can be deciphered from his coins on which are portrayed a variety of gods and goddesses. According to this site, Nike was featured on at least one of his them. And the fifth coin on the page shows Nemesis, but without wings.

Best regards,

I don't see why it would be all diminishing to depict Nike the way she was on Phillip's brestplate. Even if one were simply interested in seeming pious, recognition of the goddess' contributions would not have impugned on the general's ability--anymore so than the rituals, omen-taking, and thanks-giving described in the various ancient annals.

Furthermore, there is no reason to assume that Nike is shown aiding Phillip specifically. The figure does not seem to resemble Phillip (being clean-shaven), and is thus symbolic--victory coming to the aid of the worthy or some such. If anything that sort of theme would seem apropos on the sort of armour a royal person could afford.

Bless you, bless you, bless you! I just cannot thank you enough for this picture. You have truly made my day!

Oh, I am so flabbergasted! This is just wonderful! I could kiss you a thousand times over!

I will explain next post...right now, I am overwhelmed with joy!

Nemesis would be an interesting goddess to carve onto a victory medal. I hadn't even considered her before, but now that you mention it, the possibility is certainly there.

But then there is the flip side to who is being humbled in this medal. Whether it's Nike, Nemesis, or another goddess, the part I still find interesting is how she is carved onto Philip's breastplate. It is as if she has second standing. First, everyone would look at Philip. Perhaps a few would take close consideration on his breastplate and the other details. To thank a goddess by carving her onto the breastplate that you're wearing on a medal is an odd way to give thanks. Of course, Philip didn't have much say in it. I wonder who carved the medal and what instructions were given.

And Jan, goodness, please do explain soon! I'm sure we all want to take part in your joy!

Vergina Sun wrote:But then there is the flip side to who is being humbled in this medal. Whether it's Nike, Nemesis, or another goddess, the part I still find interesting is how she is carved onto Philip's breastplate. It is as if she has second standing. First, everyone would look at Philip. Perhaps a few would take close consideration on his breastplate and the other details. To thank a goddess by carving her onto the breastplate that you're wearing on a medal is an odd way to give thanks. Of course, Philip didn't have much say in it. I wonder who carved the medal and what instructions were given.

Interesting thought, however the reverse of the medallion shows a winged Nike riding a four horse chariot (Victory in a quadriga) so having her also portrayed as a minor figure on the obverse wouldn't exactly give her second standing.

I wish I could link directly to the image of the reverse, but a direct link doesn't seem work. However, if you use Google Books search (under "More" on the Google masthead) and enter Alexander the Great: The Merging of East and West in Universal History you'll be taken to the book. Put the number 82 in the page box and hit the enter key, then scroll down to the image.

Best regards,

Oh! I had forgotten how Nike was shown on the back too. Twice in one victory medal isn't bad, I guess. I'll try linking to the book page too. It works for me, but it might or might not work for the rest of the world. Here it goes:

http://books.google.com/books?id=mNEEAA ... A82-IA1,M1

I will keep my silence about this now after seeing it again second time round. It refreshed my memory about a cuirass and another strange coincidence occurred so that I got over excited. Best to keep it to myself...sorry!

jan wrote: I will keep my silence about this now after seeing it again second time round. It refreshed my memory about a cuirass and another strange coincidence occurred so that I got over excited. Best to keep it to myself...sorry!

Yes, Jan, probably a good idea!

ATB

Just can't stand to think of me as an angel, huh?