Olympias' jealousy (and that of other wives?)

[marcus]

Yes, Philip was well known to be a great philanderer of both young men and young women and there’s no evidence that it was a problem for anyone except his wives.

Actually, I don't recall that it was a problem even for his wives. The antagonism that Olympias appears to have felt towards Cleopatra/Eurydice was about the potential status of any male issue as far as it would affect Olympias' own son, rather than any sexual jealousy.

Similarly, if one chooses to believe that Olympias was responsible for any damage done to Arrhidaeus, it wasn't because she was jealous of Philinna being in Philip's bed, whether before, during or after her own (relatively short) period of wedded bliss. Instead, it was because there was another male child (who was probably older than Alexander), who might therefore have posed a considerable threat to his ascendancy in later life.

At least, I'm not aware of any of the sources that ascribe Olympias' actions to sexual jealousy; and in the case of Arrhidaeus, if it was sexual jealousy then why did she take it out on the son? Admittedly, she did kill Cleopatra once Philip was dead, but the way she had been 'shamed' by Attalus' intimation of Alexander being a bastard, during Philip's nuptials to Cleopatra, does rather explain her extreme revenge - it wasn't quite the same as pouring a drink over her at the wedding reception, after all!

As usual, the absence of any evidence doesn't necessarily preclude sexual jealousy; but there is certainly no reason, that I'm aware of, to suggest it.

ATB

[amyntoros]

Darn it, Marcus! Just when I thought I was done with Pothos for a while.

Yes, Philip was well known to be a great philanderer of both young men and young women and there’s no evidence that it was a problem for anyone except his wives.

Actually, I don't recall that it was a problem even for his wives. . . . At least, I'm not aware of any of the sources that ascribe Olympias' actions to sexual jealousy . . . . As usual, the absence of any evidence doesn't necessarily preclude sexual jealousy; but there is certainly no reason, that I'm aware of, to suggest it.

Well, there’s at least one, unfortunately, in Plutarch

Plutarch, Life of Alexander Ch. 9.3-4 - However, the disorders in his household, due to the fact that his marriages and amours carried into the kingdom the infections, as it were, which reigned in the women’s apartments, produced many grounds of offence and great quarrels between father and son, and these the bad temper of Olympias, who was a jealous and sullen woman, made still greater, since [4] she spurred Alexander on.

I say unfortunately because (a) I don’t believe it is true that she was a “jealous and sullen woman” and (b) this excerpt is interpreted by almost everyone as proof that Olympias was jealous of Philip’s other relationships and wives. However, when I wrote about “evidence” I was thinking of what is said in Plutarch . . .

Best regards,

[marcus]

Well, there’s at least one, unfortunately, in Plutarch

Plutarch, Life of Alexander Ch. 9.3-4 - However, the disorders in his household, due to the fact that his marriages and amours carried into the kingdom the infections, as it were, which reigned in the women’s apartments, produced many grounds of offence and great quarrels between father and son, and these the bad temper of Olympias, who was a jealous and sullen woman, made still greater, since [4] she spurred Alexander on.

I say unfortunately because (a) I don’t believe it is true that she was a “jealous and sullen woman” and (b) this excerpt is interpreted by almost everyone as proof that Olympias was jealous of Philip’s other relationships and wives. However, when I wrote about “evidence” I was thinking of what is said in Plutarch . . .

That's an interesting one. I think it could be read in two ways - sure, it could mean jealousy between the women; I feel it could be understood to mean the political issues that arose. It would be interesting to find out how others interpret it.

ATB

[amyntoros]

That's an interesting one. I think it could be read in two ways - sure, it could mean jealousy between the women; I feel it could be understood to mean the political issues that arose. It would be interesting to find out how others interpret it.

Marcus, do you think we could split this off into a new thread, beginning probably with your first response to me on the subject of Olympias' jealousy? Obviously we've gone off-topic, but that's not really the problem. I'd like to add further comments myself as well as seeing the views of others, but I'm afraid this thread will get too unwieldly.

And I know I said we, as do you think we could split this off, but of course I don't have a clue how do that! So, would you want to do this?

Best regards,

[marcus]

Marcus, do you think we could split this off into a new thread, beginning probably with your first response to me on the subject of Olympias' jealousy? Obviously we've gone off-topic, but that's not really the problem. I'd like to add further comments myself as well as seeing the views of others, but I'm afraid this thread will get too unwieldly.

And I know I said we, as do you think we could split this off, but of course I don't have a clue how do that! So, would you want to do this?

I don't mind doing it - probably a good idea. I'll need to remind myself how to do it ... and then there's the issue of making sure the correct posts get transferred. Let me see what I can do ...

ATB