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With connection to attitudes of yesteryear. During the periods of Alexander and later was it really such a bad thing to kill a relation Brother sister Father mother. Or are we judging by whats the norm today.

During the power days of the Ancients would it be totally abhorant to kill or have something to do with killing a kin relative. Its argued that Alexander really wouldnt dream of it. If it were proven that he did Im sure he would be vilified from here to eternity. As somewhere mentioned Alexander gets most vilified for some of the bad things he did.

Alexander gets vilified for Tyre or dragging Bagoas behind a chariot. Yet Darius hardly gets a mention for what he did to Alexanders sich and wounded at Issus.

Alexander gets vilified for Thebes. Yet Demosthenese and his gob

shites get hardly any blame for winding them up. Telling them lies about Alexander been killed, Promising Athenian aid yet as soon as it got sticky abandond them to there fate.

If as I believe Alexander was involved with Philips death, In relation to the times and society. IS it out of the norm and a real reason to vilify Alexander. I think not.If through the passing of time it was established Alexander was involved. Would it change any Porthonians perception of Alexander that they have right now.

Kenny

jasonxx wrote:Alexander gets vilified for Tyre or dragging Bagoas behind a chariot. Yet Darius hardly gets a mention for what he did to Alexanders sich and wounded at Issus.
Alexander gets vilified for Thebes. Yet Demosthenese and his gob shites get hardly any blame for winding them up. Telling them lies about Alexander been killed, Promising Athenian aid yet as soon as it got sticky abandond them to there fate.

Hi Kenny,

This is an interesting remark. The first thing I thought when reading it was Jesus's "parable (sp?) of the talents", which final teaching is "those who have a lot will be asked a lot in return, those who have little will be asked little". If a rather slow/below average cook in your kitchen prepares a good dish you would probably commend him/her rather profusely. If the same dish is prepared by your most skillful apprentice, you would be rather disappointed. It is a matter of what your expectations are, isn't it?

But then I immediately realised that this very idea was contaminated by my ideas about Alexander ("endowed with a heroic soul", one could argue) and Dareios/Demosthenes ("endowed with low and vile souls", continuing the analogy). It is easier to pick on someone who gets us used to high standards, wheareas yet another mistake of a non-entity hardly surprises us as to feel too disgusted.

I guess we both think alike regarding this matter. However, those who vilify Alexander seem to actually hate him. So I guess I cannot really provide an answer for them.

So probably -going back to the poll- I would say I would be disappointed of learning about him having played a role in Philip's demise. Of the three options, the "ashamed of Alexander" is probably the one that I would choose.

However, I guess it will be something that I will feel only temporarily. Later on, I will probably still reach the conclusion that as a human he was prone to errors like everyone else. If anything, the enormity of his achievements is further magnified by those black spots.

Call me an apologist if you want. I am not ashamed of it!

Best,
Alejandro

jasonxx wrote:With connection to attitudes of yesteryear. During the periods of Alexander and later was it really such a bad thing to kill a relation Brother sister Father mother. Or are we judging by whats the norm today.

During the power days of the Ancients would it be totally abhorant to kill or have something to do with killing a kin relative. Its argued that Alexander really wouldnt dream of it. If it were proven that he did Im sure he would be vilified from here to eternity. As somewhere mentioned Alexander gets most vilified for some of the bad things he did.

Alexander gets vilified for Tyre or dragging Bagoas behind a chariot. Yet Darius hardly gets a mention for what he did to Alexanders sich and wounded at Issus.

Alexander gets vilified for Thebes. Yet Demosthenese and his gob

shites get hardly any blame for winding them up. Telling them lies about Alexander been killed, Promising Athenian aid yet as soon as it got sticky abandond them to there fate.

If as I believe Alexander was involved with Philips death, In relation to the times and society. IS it out of the norm and a real reason to vilify Alexander. I think not.If through the passing of time it was established Alexander was involved. Would it change any Porthonians perception of Alexander that they have right now.

Kenny

To answer the initial question about whether it was such a bad thing to kill a relation ... yes, most definitely. Greek myth is full of people who are cursed by the gods for killing a father, mother, brother, whatever. One of the most famous is Oedipus - he is stigmatised because he kills his father and marries his mother (a double-whammy), and his ignorance is no defence. When he achieves knowledge it sends him mad, and he blinds himself.

Orestes kills his mother for murdering his father, and despite the 'justice' of his act, he is hounded by the Furies for years.

The influence of Dionysus causes Agave to murder her own son (in The Bacchae). This is a heinous act, designed to exemplify the wildness, lack of restraint and overturning of all that is natural, that Dionysus inspires.

I know that these are all mythological examples, but the Greeks used myth to establish, teach, and reflect their own moral values (naturally). Therefore, it is abundantly clear that these patricides, matricides, etc. were abhorrent to the Greeks.

I can certainly give you one historical example. Timoleon killed his own brother, because the brother (Timothenes) became a tyrant in Corinth and Timoleon was unable to persuade him to lay down his power. Timoleon was cast out by his mother, and went into self-imposed exile for 20 years (according to Plutarch - Diodorus is less clear about the length of his exile) before being selected to lead the Corinthian force that the city was sending to Sicily to oust the tyrants there. The Corinthians selected him to lead the expedition on the basis that, if he was successful, then the gods would have forgiven his sin; if he failed, then it meant the gods were still out to punish him. Timoleon campaigned in Sicily in the 340s, and finally died in 337BC. If the length of his exile was indeed 20 years, then he killed his brother in the mid-360s BC.

ATB

Alejandro Hail

I like your rhetoric. Particullay the People most to Vilify are the ones who Hate Alexander and all that he represented.

I get confused and to be honest the word Hate gets banded around far too much. To me hate is one of those words of such extremes . Hate is the emotion on a far range and what would really cause real hatred. Torture fear etc of someone or something that would really cause the extreme feeling of hate.

I would say for all the banding about of the word I would say that to hate in its real meaning is very rare and mostly based on some phsychopathic Tenency or agenda. How can Anyone hate Alexander, Americans Romans etc without even knowing them. These kinds of so called hatreds are raised and bred by some brainwashing agendas against certain things.

I would readily exchange the word hate for in a lot of cases Jelousy. Alexander is an example of supreme accomplishments and a chievements mere people and even critics could only dream about. so its there own insecurities and inadequacies that changes the Word Envy into a more vindictive hate.

Kenny