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A great page i found "Cyrus The Great and Alexander"

Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 5:00 pm
by iranianguy
Cyrus The Greatand his influence upon Alexander One of the historical figures most admired by Alexander The Great is also most often overlooked; he is Cyrus The Great. Alexander revered and respected the achievements of Cyrus. He visited his tomb and took stern measures against those who had allowed it to be desecrated. Even a brief look at the life of Cyrus will at once reveal to you why Alexander so admired Cyrus as their careers display a salient parallel. Both were born princes and became kings in small outland kingdoms and both sought through conquest to enlarge them. Some outstanding differences shall at once occur to anyone who studies this parallel.To quote Charles Freeman in his book, 'The Greek Achievement', ' In scope and extent his achievements ranked far above that of the Macedonian king, Alexander ("the great") who was to demolish the empire in the 320's but fail to provide any stable alternative.'There is ample opportunity for debate in this statement, but there is indeed, some truth in it. Cyrus created the greatest empire the world had ever seen and his successors added to it; this cannot be said of Alexander. There are certainly extenuating circumstances in the short life of Alexander, but the fact remains that he did not create an empire; the great conqueror, conquered.In past years Alexander has been lauded as an enlightened ruler with a vision of the brotherhood of man, but here too it must be pointed out that he was following the previously written and implemented policies of Cyrus which had been in place for years.Cyrus must be credited with creating the first human rights document in history. The stone cylinder now in The British Museum clearly states his policy of toleration of individual cultures and religions. He presents himself as a liberator rather than a conqueror and is scrupulous in his public support of all the many religions which he encounters. It was Cyrus The great who freed the Jews from their many years of slavery in Babylon and sent 40,000 of them back to Israel with lavish gifts to enable the building of a great temple to their
God.It can be argued that it is only through this apparent and magnificent benevolence that it was possible to rule so vast and diverse an empire, but whether it was benevolence or pragmatism, it was very much admired throughout the world and emulated, not innovated, by Alexander.As Westerners we receive our early knowledge of The Persian Empire

Re: A great page i found

Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 5:21 pm
by jan
It was Cyrus the Great who initiated the practice of prokynethesis, which was embraced by Alexander but disdained by the Macedonians who frowned upon it.

Re: A great page i found

Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 11:23 pm
by amyntoros
Not just the Macedonians but all the Greeks before them - and the practice was much more than "frowned upon." As far as they were concerned, one only bowed before a god.ATBAmyntoros

Re: A great page i found

Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 9:10 pm
by iranianguy
Im not really sure about that word but from the person who replied to you i believe you are saying feelings that one is on a even level with God? Correct me if im wrong? I would like to hear of the sorce of such a charge? From my knowledge of Cyrus the Great it is almost the opposite of what you are saying. For your information Cyrus respected every God of the different people under his kingdom. Countless examples of this are so easy to see which is why i cant believe you would even think of such a thing. 1)When Cyrus conqured Babylon he honoured the God of the City. He freed the Jewish slaves from the bondage they were in and sent most back to there homeland and fully funded the rebuilding of the temple there. Have you never read the inscriptioion found on Cyrus own grave("I am Cyrus,who founded the empire for the Persians. Grudge me not therefore this little earth that covers my body") does that sound like something someone who thinks they are on the same pedistal with the lord would say. Cyrus the Great was probly on of the most modest kings in known history.
It is believed he followed both the old elimental faith of the Aryans and the new faith called Zoroastrianism. I await your reply.

Re: A great page i found

Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 10:31 pm
by amyntoros
Kohyar - the issue of proskynesis is really about the differences in the cultures of the Greeks and Persians. For Cyrus and the Persian kings who ruled after him, proskynesis was simply a mark of great respect to the king. However, the Greeks and Macedonians, as I said before, only bowed before their gods so they viewed the practice very differently and consequently were opposed to it. I'm really not sure why Jan brought it up, but I have never thought that Cyrus implied he was a god. And I'm equally sure that when Alexander tried to initiate the practice in his court it wasn't with the intent that he should be worshipped - he simply wanted the conquered Persians to witness his own men offering the same gesture of respect that they (the Persians) afforded to their kings. As we well know, the Macedonians didn't see it this way and Alexander never attempted to bring about the practice again. Best regards, Amyntoros

Re: A great page i found

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2005 1:23 pm
by jan
Hi Linda Ann, and Khoyar,To compare Alexander to Cyrus is simply obvious, as when I examine the books available and written about Alexander they are quite plentiful, but so far I have been able to find only two books on the subject of Cyrus. That in itself says a lot about the impact of the two leaders.I introduced the idea of bowing to the king as initiated by Cyrus for purposes of discipline and honor, I would assume, as a way of showing how it was that Alexander had adapted to the customs of the Persians while trying to integrate the two cultural groups, Greek and Persian, into a single cohesive group. Callisthenes is the one person who suffered the most from Alexander's "flexibility" and sense of reason.But this argument that was posted had to do with who was greater in terms of impact and influence, and history proves that it is Alexander.I believe he accepted the god aspect of his person and that may be why.

Re: A great page i found

Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 4:06 pm
by jan
HI Linda Ann, I just have to add that in the movie The King and I starring Yul Brynner, the point was made that nobody could have hid head higher than the King. That is always amusing as the author's apparently wanted to show how the King was given his proper due and respect through such courtesy. His son, however, changes all that, due to his great tutor and friend, Anna, when he finally succeeds his father to the throne. So it is just interesting to realize that probably Cyrus is a lot like the film version of the King in the King and I.