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Hey all,Grain was the common staple of every soldier, with it they could make bread, or porridge. My question is, whenever Alexander stopped for lunch, it couldn't have been very long (4-5 hours maybe?), did this soldiers carry the bread already made? and how was it made? I don't know how these guys baked bread in the middle of nowhere; I can understand the porridge, but if they had to build miniature clay/brick ovens, that would have taken forever. I know that in survival guides, at times they suggest a "pit oven" but was this technique known then?

Hi Lucian,Excellent question ... to which I don't know the answer. I've always assumed that bread, if it were made, was made overnight, and then it could be eaten during the following day; but perhaps they didn't bake bread for the normal march, rather went for the 'porridge' idea? I shall have to see whether Engels says anything about it in 'Logistics'.By the way, if you think 4-5 hours is a 'not very long' lunch, then I am extremely envious! :-)ATBMarcus

Light a fire, mix flour with water to make batter, add a pinch of salt, place shield over fire, use pike to turn once mixture begins to bubble on shield, cook both sides till golden brown.The origin of pikelets!

almost forgot, on a more serious side, I think that 'pit ovens' were more likely to be used. cheers!

Maybe when the army was on a really fast march they just had gruel to eat, and bread was made only if they were camped for a period of time or moving at a more leisurely pace. I suppose that the cooks *could* make bread overnight, but I wonder when they slept if the march began again the next morning? I originally thought that the bread in those times would always have been unleavened and really could have been made much like Smitty just described in his post, though using pans rather than shields! But apparently, there was leavened bread as well. I never thought I'd be posting a recipe on Pothos, but here's one I found in The Complete Greek Cookbook: The Best from 3000 years of Greek Cooking
By Theresa Karas Yianilos. :-)Archaic BreadThe earliest kind of Greek bread was a simple, flat, hard-crusted hearth bread, coarse and heavy because the barley flour used in it had a low gluten content. Barley in its original form is still grown in the regions around the Red and Caspian seas. This ancient recipe, described by Athenaeus in a third century book on cookery, is still followed throughout the Near East2 cups warm water or scaled milk cooled to lukewarm. 2 teaspoons salt. I tablespoon honey. 2 tablespoons olive oil. 2 tablespoons barley meal. 6 cups flour, barley or stone ground whole wheat.Mix all ingredients except flour into a 2 quart jar. Place jar in a pan of hot water and let stand in a warm place free of drafts until fermentation begins GÇô approximately twelve hours or m ore. Replace hot water every 4 hours. Mix in 2 cups of the flour. Set aside once again in a warm place. Replace hot water in pan. A sponge should be formed in 4 to 6 hours.Put 4 cups flour in a bowl, make a well, and add sponge. Knead well, lightly dusting your hands with flour until dough is smooth. Shape and put into oiled loaf pan. Cover with damp towel and place in a warm draft-free place to rise for 4 to 6 hours. It will not rise as high as modern breads. Bake in preheated oven at 375 degree Fahrenheit for ten minutes. Reduce to 350 degrees, bake 50 minutes.Best regards,Amyntoros

Greetings,We can probably assume the presence of breads similar to naan, pita, sajj, chapatis, "hardtack", and all the other flat breads that seem to be common throughout the world. They take little time to mix and bake, many do not require yeast, keep well and are quick to bake. Regards,
Sikander

BTW, it must not be assumed that Alexander ate what his troops ate despite his Spartan lifestyle/diet. His diet would have been much richer in good proteins and vegetables, gathered for him, but also hunted -by- him.

I would say their 'bread' was more like the bannock Native Indians made, unleavened and more like a kind of pancake so it would be quick to make. They probably had lots of camp cooks. And I understand they gathered food along the way as they didn't carry much with them.

Engles does have a lot on the topic. You might
also try Garner's _Famine and Food Supply_.
Both are wildly popular in their respective fields,
and THE sources you would footnote if you had
to make some comment about ancient bread,
its caloric value and how much wheat it took o
make. .Even so, their calculations are completely at
odds. Both argue from modern nutritional
scholarship, and reach opposite conclusions
that (coincidentally?) help their thesis. So,
Engel's calculations show that Alexander's
supplies wouldn't last for very long and would
therefore dictate his army's movements, and
Garner reasons that wheat provided lots of
calories, so Attica was able to feed Athens for
longer than is generally thought. .There's a good article on "Bakers and Baking" in
Seyffert's _Dictionary of Classical Antiquities_.
Pothos will insert spaces into the URL because
it doesn't like Macs, but here it is http://www.isidore-of-seville.com/al/seyffert/0093
.html

Greetings Lucian,Bread & wine is fine but let us not forget jerky will always keep you perky. It's easy to smoke hunted meat and caught fish, can be stored in ceramic jars and hides, not essential, also can be pre soaked in water and a wine salted brine for long shelf life sort of speak. Jerky will last almost forever, strips are easy to pack on marches and rich in protein. I'm sure Alexander loved jerky, who wouldn't. If you had bad teeth you could suck until soft then swallow. There's more than one way to skin a cat.
Regards, Andrew

Het Andrew, do ya think they had anything like a pemmican kind of thing?

Hi Alex,I'm not sure I agree with you (entirely) here. It is quite possible, it's true, that once the army halted for a significant period of time Alexander's diet might have been better than that of the rest of the army (although there's nothing to suggest that it was - after the massive hunt at Bazira, for example, it is clear that it wasn't just the Companions who ate well); but on the march I don't think there's anything to suggest that he would have eaten any more or better than the common soldiery. When supplies ran low they ran low, and there are enough exempla in the sources to show that Alexander really did live as his soldiers lived - one of the reasons why they followed him as far as they did.All the bestMarcus

Thanks, Tim. It's only laziness that's prevented me from reaching down Engels so far to check for myself.However, I must thank you again for the Dictionary of Classical Antiquities - it's great! My OCD is in my flat, 200 miles away at the moment, so consulting it is quite difficult, as you can imagine. So being able to go to the DCA is very helpful!CheersMarcus

Thanks for thanking. I've got a few others to add. I have Hazlitt's Classical Gazeteer, Smith's Classical Dictionary and Anthon's Classical Dictionary coming up soon. Anthon's is particularly good. It's very old (base edition is 1840s) but absurdly learned, more like Pauly than the OCD.

Dang,I'm hungry