pothos.org

Over the last couple of days this forum has become a very unwelcoming place, in my opinion. On the one hand one of our longest-standing members has been attacked for including a link to a piece of prose that she didn't write, which included one word that offended some people. Whether or not people should have been offended by it is neither here nor there - that is no excuse to lambast one of our distinguished members.On the other hand, one of our more occasional posters has basically been *instructed* not to continue posting his thoughts. Well, I'm sorry, but this is a public forum, and we should be welcoming anyone who wishes to join in, so long as they stick to the three fairly simple rules that are stated on the site. If people don't want to read or respond to the posts, that is also their prerogative.I don't have the power to delete posts, and I don't want it, on the whole. However, if I had the power for five minutes, at the moment, there are about 20 posts that I would delete immediately, for the attitudes and comments contained in them.I might well be guilty myself, although I try not to be; and if I am then I offer a wholehearted apology to anyone I might have offended on this forum. I think we should be ashamed of ourselves, and start re-reading our own posts before clicking the "post" button, to see whether we are causing offence ourselves. Sincere best wishes to everyone, although with a distinct frown on my face as I type.Marcus

Hi Marcus,I haven't posted for a long time, but I wanted to second your comments. There are other reasons why I have been just reading posts instead of taking a more active part - computer problems, lack of time etc. - but the fact that some people here on the forum are very quick to criticise is another. It makes me feel wary of venturing an opinion, which is probably a bit feeble of me, but I'm not the sort of person who enjoys arguments or strife.
BTW, all I'm suggesting is that we should try to stay friendly and open-minded, not that we should blandly agree all the time, that could get boring!
Cheers,
Kate

To everyone:Over the past many years, I have helped moderate this forum. There is probably not one long-standing member that I have not protected from personal attacks by deleting offensive posts. This has often been done before the person attacked has even seen the posting.I believe I started this by my personal comment that I found the article which Susan had published a link to mildly amusing, but that I was put off by the homophobic tone of part of it. That was my opinion. I am entitled to that as much as anyone else is entitled to theirs. In no way did I attack Susan, but Susan became angry. I don't know why she would. A few people also posted that they did not like the tone of the comments in the article. A few other people posted that they could care less.I think Marcus's comments today have cemented an idea that has been forming with me for some time. Moderating this forum is a thankless task since the care that I try to give to the feelings of others seems to have little value except momentarily to the person whom I have protected. But how short are their memories. Alas and alack! (smiles kindly on you all)Cheers everyone
In kindnessHalil

Hi Halil,
You can appreciate exactly why I don't want the power to delete posts - although my erratic Internet access also makes it impractical for me to have such ability, anyway.
I have to say that, as far as the 'attack' on Susan is concerned, I don't think any one person is to blame, but these things have a habit of spiralling out of control, until all relevance to the subject of the forum is lost.
I just feel that anyone who might venture onto the forum for the first time, particularly in the last two days, would be frightened to join in; and that's a great shame. We all ought to be able to get along, while still being able to disagree (Kate is quite right).
I love this forum, and would hate for it to lose the good name it has. Let's not forget that there are books and articles published that specifically recommend Pothos in their bibliographies. I, for one, would rather people with serious interest in Alexander took us seriously, and thought well of us.
All the best
Marcus

I just have to say something. The later part of last year I joined a group on Alexander for the first time (my first group experience)and got caught up in some really unpleasant postings. All of it had to do with Alexander's sexuality. I didn't know anyone and didn't know what kind of people visited these sites. I thought that it would be very educated, intelligent, "open-minded" people. Well, not everyone was open-minded (not even close) there was a small group that made it painfully clear that they would be glad if I had never come there. They made me feel like a dog. I hate to say this, but I will because there have been times in my life when honesty is all I had, I cried over it. I lasted two weeks at that horrible group, then I came here, and the value of a group of people with similar interests was reaffirmed for me. We should always be considerate of the other person. I want to say to Susan, I don't think you ever dreamed that the little fanfic would come off the way it did. I know you didn't mean anything wrong by it. And I don't think you meant to insult gay men. You only tried to sent some humor. We all realize this, surely, and it is in the past and not important now. Only a misunderstanding. So long as we talk things out here, we can work through it. It's just like any kind of relationship.

Did the thread get removed? I tried to do a search for it (a) to reread the fan fic, and (b) to reread the comments to see if I viewed things differently a day later, but nothing came up. What gives?

I think there is the problem with perhaps airing stuff about a private discussion on the board (even if it started on the board), because if some of the "evidence" has been removed, then people are left with a vague uneasiness about some dispute they don't have the facts to follow up, and dealing with hearsay - Marcus say, Halil says, Susan says..

No disrespect, Marcus, and I have been involved in a few spats here, some private, some public. One started publically, went private and then was public again, and while that settled the dispute, I felt that not all the facts were known, and so I was at a disadvantage. But, life moves on. I appreciate your comments about perhaps sometime the board can get unfriendly, too personal, or intellectuallly rigorous (which can upset people new, or sensitive, or just feeling sensitive, or caught off guard). Misunderstandings occur. But, people should be allowed to post opinions. Hell, if we get to the stage where someone being offended is a crime - like all the religious stuff in the UK now about Jerry Springer the Opera - then we are in a bad way. BUT, we aren't all equal in brain, learning, age, experience etc, and I think that is important when replying to posts, something that is generally very well understood here. Some occasional exceptions...but again, if someone gets offended, that isn't always the fault of the offender.

Still haven't seen the film. Do you think it is still playing

Absolutely agree with you that people should be allowed to post opinions. I think that what Marcus is trying to say is that comments should always be relative to the subject and not the person who is posting. To give a different example than the ones at hand - people obviously should be allowed to disagree all they want about the movie - love it or hate it, or what you will. But when a remark is made that those who liked the film are "base and vulgar" - well, that's a whole different ball game. :-)Best regards,Linda AnnP.S. Perhaps I should change my signature? When I first began to post I added my middle name so as not to confuse anyone, but I've noticed members often call me just "Linda" in their replies. I'm sure long-time Pothosians aren't confused, but do I wonder about new members. Not that I would be offended by being mistaken for you, but you might not feel the same way!

HulloI am always careful to call you Linda Ann - do people in real life generally call you Linda? I don't mind - I don't think it has caused confusion so far..Yes - personal comments are uncalled for - sometime things are taken personally when they are just a comment on the opinion a person holds. And it has worried me that some people don't want to post a negative opinion about the film in case it upsets people who like it. That it a bit like the Christian thing of not minding telling everyone else they are going to hell, but get in a strop if someone says anything rude about Jesus. Maybe it isn't the same. I digress. not Linda Ann

Hi Marcus, I love your defense of Susan. That was great! Everyone by now has probably forgotten the post, but on the very day of my response I received an important letter from a Nancy inviting me somewhere. I had to laugh at the irony! It was cool though! My favorite is Nancy Lord, a former teacher at Baker Business College, who was stuck in the world of court reporting! So I am always thankful to Susan for sharing that article. I thought it fun! This is a very strange world in which we live, and we should all try to be as nice to one another as is possible, methinks! I hope Susan will continue to share her knowledge here as it is so valuable.

HiYes, in real life I am just "Linda" but you were actively posting on the forum long before I ever got up the nerve. :-)I wouldn't have too much concern about people who don't like the movie being afraid to post. Besides being in the majority, their opinions are as valid as anyone elses. What has actually happened is that a few people, including myself, who *do* like the film have decided not to comment on it any more because of personal remarks that have been made. However, its no big thing - it's only a movie and there are plenty of other interesting topics to discuss.Best regards,TPFKALA (The Pothosian formerly known as Linda Ann):-)

Thank you, all for being so sensitive to the feelings of Susan. No one "attacked" Susan, but she perceived that she had been attacked. Since the perception of the injured party is considered to be the criterion for deciding if harassment has taken place, I removed the post which Susan told me she had regretted posting. However that seems to have caused more confusion. Should I remove this thread too so that people don't have to wonder about what all this is about too? Or should I just wait until it disappears which will probably happen by tomorrow?Best wishes
Halil

I don't believe in censorship of any kind, unless it protects others from something that is degrading or racist. I doubt the original thread ever stooped to that level. Correct me if I'm wrong. The original thread should have been left, and this one should remain as well. It's all part of the free speech that so many of us take for granted, yet so many seek to attain.

How many times can you beat a dead horse until it stinks? I believe we've passed the putrid stage on this incident and see no reason to continue on with this. It has nothing to do with Alexander and everything to do with bruised egos. Been there, done that. What qualifies as funny for one may be insulting to another, but clearly no offense was meant and none should be taken. Halil, please leave the original post off and for that matter, deleting this whole thread wouldn't be a bad idea.Time to move on with discussion and commentary on Alexander and not on ourselves :-)Nothing to do with censorship of course, but good taste. Regards,Tre