Cyrus, please no offense

[nick]

Dear Cyrus ---I deleted your post as it contained a link to an ultra right wing group.Please don't take any offense. I know you meant no harm. This organisation is a neo-nazi group based in The Netherlands. I once filed an internet complaint about them with our Dutch MDI (Dutch Non-Discrimination Internet Agency). The reply I got was that they could do nothing as the actual website was hosted in a country beyond their jurisdiction. (The offensive post was abusive towards certain religious groups.)I think that none of us want pothos.org to be associated with neo-nazi websites or platforms, let alone allow a weblink to their sites. I hope that you understand my decision.Regards ---Nick

[Cyrus]

That was not a link but just a pic of an ordinary Iranian girl in north east of Iran that I found by searching in Google, I think it is important to know that except mongol and turkic origin people of this region who have come here in recent centuries, aboriginal people of northern Iran and Afghanistan that Bactrian Princess Roxane was one of them, really look like northern Europeans.These are some Iranian girls: http://www.ksabz.net/archive.asp which one looks like Rosario Dawson?

[ancientlibrary]

*Why* is that important?.I suppose all facts are interesting, and the skin
color of Bactrians is a fact, but why get excited
over a Hispanic Roxane? John Wayne once
played Genghis Khan! It's the movies.

[luisfc1972]

i agree to a certain point tim. but you have to admit that if denzel washington does indeed play hannibal barca (upcoming movie), he is claiming that hannibal was black. whereas john wayne played genghis, i doubt genghis was being claimed as white. in this movie oliver stone is not claiming roxanne was black or hispanic. he just cast her because he thought she might be good for the role (or as some reports say she slept with him and the producer hehe)

[Halil]

Is this necessarily true? Denzel Washington played Don Pedro in "Much Ado..." and Keanu Reeves played his brother. Both were well cast for their acting abilities, their respective colour was not part of the casting criteria.

[luisfc1972]

Halil, no offence, but do some research on hannibal and you will understand what i mean. lots of african and african american people want to believe hannibal was "black". "hannibal inflicts severe damage on the european". you have to understand hollywood would love to play that. he was from north africa, carthage. oh WOW he was from africa he must be black. i dont have much respect for hollywood and i already see whats going to happen if and when this movie comes out. people take epics and true stories seriously. people argue over alexander being greek. a movie about a major historical person will be taken more seriously than the movie you mentioned.

[luisfc1972]

by the way, denzel washington believes hannibal was black. i doubt john wayne believed genghis khan was white.

[ancientlibrary]

The contrast deserves discussion. Basically,
Americans note black and white. They are not
so sensitive to the difference between different
European white peopleGÇöas Cyrus so insistently
calls the Bactrian Roxane, played by someone
of presumed Spanish ancestry. I think a black
Hannibal would be bad not so much because a
black person can't play Hannibal but because it
would stoke irrational ethnic feelings. .I find it rather sad that some find it necessary to
believe nonsense in order to find heroes of their
own skin color. First, there's a danger in
*needing* heroes of your own skin
colorGÇöheroism being a personal moral trait,
unconnected with skin color. My bosom does
not swell with pride when I hear about great
French heroes. But even if this were granted
there are plenty of authentic black heroes to go
around. .But, stepping back, what is the problem with a
black Hannibal? It's not the simple portrayal, but
the ugly myth-making and polemic that will
follow from it. The American racial scene can
get ugly. I'd be happy to declare every Greek
black and Jew Chinese as long as nobody
*cared* about these differences..In contrast with the racial politics of Hannibal,
nobody in Europe or America gives a hoot
whether Bacrians 2.5 thousand years ago
looked more like Persian children or booby
Hispanic models.

[marcus]

Almost exactly what I was going to say, word for word!

[marcus]

Luis,You are, of course, right about the political agendas that might be furthered in such a situation. However, a lot of people believe this and the film hasn't been made. Will it really make that much difference? I'm now waiting for a remake of Cleopatra with Halle Berry as Cleo ... (Actually, now I come to think of it, that would be quite something ... breaks into sweat ...)Marcus

[Halil]

Well said, Tim. I remember there was (probably still is) a desire to make Cleopatra (the famous one) black because she came from Egypt (for Egypt read Africa) which had the same problems associated with it.Luis, no offense taken. I freely admit I know little about Hannibal apart from the basic stuff. My post was more to do with skin-colour casting decisions than with history, which I agree would be more meaningful propaganda-wise in the US than in Europe.I admire Denzel Washington's acting skills. If what you say is true about him, it's sad that a man of such quality would feel the need to alter history to feel better about himself.

[amyntoros]

I'm not sure we should blame Denzel for wanting to portray what he surely believes to be a strong, dynamic, historical character of African descent.To explain further: I've been familiar with this project for a while, along with a similar project of Vin Diesel's. Both movies have been discussed for at least a couple of years and neither have got off the ground yet, but apparently making such a move has been a dream of Denzel Washington's for more than a decade. Why would he think Hannibal was black? We can probably thank Budweiser and the Anheuser Busch brewery who have been distributing posters to schools which feature "Great Kings and Queens of Africa" and, as far as I can tell, they have been doing this for decades. The following site promotes the posters as fact (beware, there are many racist sites regarding these posters!) and shows you the illustration of Hannibal, along with some other easily disputed figures, such as Cleopatra.http://www.playahata.com/pages/bhfigure ... 6.htmlThis is just another example of educational misinformation, though it was probably well-intended as a means to give African American children people of their own color to admire, other than famous Americans. Unfortunately, in my opinion, the public relations department of a brewery is hardly the proper place for educational materials to originate. (And I'm sure we don't all want to get into an off-topic discussion about "hidden promotional content" in items being distributed to schools.) Finally, and getting back to the subject of this thread, Rosario Dawson was cast because of her acting ability and her resemblance (in Stone's eyes) to Angelina Jolie as Olympias. This was Stone's major requirement, though I suppose the "exotic" appearance of the mixed-race Dawson added to the appeal. On a personal note, I never liked the casting of her as Roxane, and disliked it even further when I found out that she alone was responsible for the slapping, the knife-wielding, and the generally violent sexual wedding-night encounter in the movie. When they began filming, she apparently thought the scene (as written in the audition side) was too tame and added her own creative input. Stone, sad to say, went along with it. (sigh)Best regards,Linda Ann

[luisfc1972]

halle berry as cleopatra? there goes the neighborhood. poor impressionable kids end up believing lies. might as well cast ll cool j as george washington americas first president.
anyhow, id much rather see halle berry play a stripper in some movie hehe.

[marcus]

Hi Luis,The point is that plenty of impressionable kids *already* believe it. I've seen footage of teachers in classrooms *telling* their students that Cleopatra was black ... and the rationale behind it was that nobody knows exactly who her grandmother was ... therefore she *might* not have been of Graeco-Macedonian descent.If so many children already believe this sort of thing, then if they were to re-make Cleopatra (or do a new one) they might as well use a beautiful acress, whatever her ethnic background ...... and, of course, the real Cleopatra was not as beautiful as Halle Berry ... but they'd never make a film with a less than stunning actress in the role, would they?All the bestMarcus

[luisfc1972]

i guess what bothers me are the afrogendists.