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Folks HiWith due respect would anyone in the forum be aware of a group more suitable to a person like myself, I consider myself indeed a fan of Alexander and maybe feel unhappy with some of the nasty stuff and sumission made about Alexander.The persistent quest to underline and undermine the truely great character I feel he was, Arian and Curtias been persistently refered to as reference,yet there account is only a second hand interpretation of Ptolemies diaries.No one will know Alexanders personality,how he died nor what he thought is all just pumph.What is importand and that should not be ignored that ALexander The Great, by a very young age single mindedly and single handedly carved out one of the largest empires the world has ever seen without a single blot.After the movie there will be a new interest in our man, I would frefer to be part of that rather than the bookworm mentality of some thoughts in this group,its time Alexander was brought from the shadows of Arian and plutarch back to a real life hero who lived and achieved more than any other.regardskenny

Hi KennyWe live in a free world - at least most members of this group appear to do so. You can state whatever you like and although I do not agree, there is nothing wrong with expressing an opinion. Personally, I like debate because it is the only (or at least an accessible) road to knowledge and, perhaps, even wisdom. So: there is nothing wrong with being a fan. I think Britney Spears is an insult to good taste, but I will not forbid my neighbor girl to be a fan.Now changing your question a bit: why am I not a fan? The answer is, quite simply, that I don't like violence and that I don't like to be told what to do by others."What is important and that should not be ignored is that Alexander The Great, by a very young age single mindedly and single handedly carved out one of the largest empires the world has ever seen without a single blot."It is indeed important and it is indeed not to be ignored, but I can not appreciate it. Countless people suffered and died because of Alexander's singlemindedness. Granted, Alexander did not start the war, he inherited it. But he did not do anything to stop it when he had the chance. After the fall of Tyre, the homeland was safe and there was no need to continue the war. According to modern standards, every act of Alexander after 332 was a war crime.Now I know that things were different back then. War was not really condemned and people admired military leaders. This is very true. But today, many people don't like imperialism and don't like war. I am living in this modern age and agree to these attitudes. Without being a pacifist, I think violence is (almost) never a solution. Therefore, although I accept that things were different back then, I can not be a fan.To state the same point in another way: as a historian, I am fascinated by Alexander's war of conquest. But my historical judgment is to be separated from my ethical judgment.Jona

KennyThere's nothing wrong with being a fan, but I don't feel that it is justified to say that people who regard Alexander differently shouldn't post on the forum - it's as much their place as it is yours, provided the rules of courtesy are followed. I think that in general this forum concentrates more upon the historical Alexander, rather than the film version or on what I'd call the 'emotional Alexander', meaning the significance that his character and deeds have in people's lives today, and so the sources are important. They obviously have their limitations - as you say, they were written many centuries later - but they are the best that we've got, and if it weren't for them we probably wouldn't have heard much of him anyway.
RegardsSusan

Hi Kenny, Susan, Jona,I have to say that I agree completely with Susan and Jona. This forum would be a dull place indeed if all we ever did was eulogise Alexander without being able to debate and discuss his life and achievements.As it is, because our sources are really so scanty, and include a lot of contradictions, the whole subject is open to a lot of interpretation (as evidenced by the volume of literature on Alexander); which in turn is what makes it such an interesting subject. If there were no debates or disagreements on this forum then I, for one, would have got bored and given up ages ago - instead, I've now been a regular visitor and contributor for over 3 years, and I intend to continue for much longer, so long as people continue to provide excellent discussion (and continue to argue with me about Hephaistion!).:-)All the bestMarcus

I support your right to think (out loud) Britney Spears is an insult to good taste. Personally, I'd rather look and listen to her than read some of your thoughts but if I think highly of B. Spears this easily keeps you on my positive side of thought.You and I are free to do what our country wants us to do, who's ever in control, well that's enough of this...When you say,"after the fall of Tyre, the homeland was safe and there was no need to continue the war," I couldn't disagree with you more. I guaranty Darius would have sooner or probably later got his revenge. The Roman Punic wars prove my point and the Macedonian wars solidifies this issue. The Romans, however, didn't seem overly concerned, occupied with problems of their own; the Romans, were not particularly interested in world domination, but rather on their own immediate security. And the Hellenistic empires were not viewed as a threat until Philip V and shortly after, this forced Rome to become world conquers.This is just my opinion, like it or not it's still survival of the fittest. And I don't see humans changing any time in the near future.Andrew

Jona I commend what you say, You appear a historical reader that believes lessons should be learned through history to the improvement of the human race and modern societies.Its fare to say that its folly to say todays society has moved on and better than the warlike days of Alexander is an illusion, To call Alexander guilty of war atrocities following Tyre is rediculous.Every empire before or since can be blamed for attricities against man kind and whats worse as you say today we should know better.Its an atrocity that world powers turn a deaf ear to third world suffering,, Its an attrocity that the powers turn a deaf ear to sufferind aids victims in Africa,, its an atrocity that world powere turn a deaf ear to Mugabis butchers. These are but a few not war atrocities but atrocities never the less.Alexander only did what empires did before and since the world of empire is no economical where the price of a barrel of oil can cause sanctions war and suffering.Before Alexander I doubt Egypt etc liked the idea of been over run and conquered by Persia.The difference maybe between a general like Alexander maybe warfare is actualyy more honest and cleaner than politics even though on the surface bloodier.Alexander was clear with his intentions, the Persians had the choice as did nations before Persia over run them.Alexander demanded Darius to claim his family in submition to himself as lord of Asia, Darius as Did Tyre and Thebes decided to fight.If you put your gloves up in a boxing match expect to get hurt, gamble on winning or get knocked out.Humanity as any life there is pecking order and survival of the fittest Alexander went through the test until something else came along.Jonah to be pacifist is folly, it is a weakness, that Gangs, Dictators, Mobsters, Terrorists thrive on because they know no one with fight and say no to them.I stick at been a fan of Alexander with all the assumed faults I do take him to be a noble warrior that first and foremost lead by example, expected no one to do or undertake anything he wouldnt do for himself endured as his men did and suffered there wounds.How many leaders can actually say that as I insist that type of warefare is cleaner, than lying politicians taking us to war, with no risk to them selves under the lie that we are at threat from weapons of mass distruction.I do believe Alexander was a warrior fighting king,a king of his time but what are the rulers o

Hi Kenny,the rest of your post appears to have been cut off, but I got the gist of what you're saying.I'm not going to put forward pacifist arguments, because (a) I'm not sure I'm a pacifist, at least not as a point of principle, and (b) that's Jona's prerogative.Of course you're right with all you say about atrocities, and there's plenty going on in the world today. Where I'm less inclined to go too deeply into this argument is that while, on the one hand, one could argue that Alexander was no worse than anyone else because he wasn't the only one to massacre loads of innocent people; on the other, just because he wasn't the only one doesn't mean they weren't atrocities.Far better to argue that what he did was not unusual according to the rules of the time. Was his action at Tyre any worse than what the Syracusans did to the Athenians in the Peloponnesian War? Was it worse than what the Spartans did to many of the cities that opposed them, and to their own helots on numerous occasions? True, we might view these things as atrocities ... but in the Ancient World there was no Geneva Convention.All the bestMarcus

Yes, I've been a 'fan' since I was sixteen and that's a long, long time!! And over the years I've learned a great deal about our hero. This forum is one of those valuable resources. Of course there was the violence involved in Alexander's campaigns. Unfortunately that's all part of war and expansion as we can very well see at the present moment in this world. But there were good points to his campaigns too and he was not ALL cruel and violent.
Mostly, he has to be one of history's most fascinating characters or we wouldn't be here discussing him day by day as we are doing. I hope the new movie paints a fair picture of him, both sides of the story. No matter what, he'll still be a hero of mine and his spirit will continue to live through the ages.

Kenny, I would suspect that anyone who has posted at least ten messages is a fan!

MarcusCompliments for your remarks, You do get the gist of what I say not to justify Alexanders deeds but to measure them against what was before and since.I was reading a rediculous article somewhere on the net yesterday, apparently some organisation of today is demanding that the greek government of today apologise for what Alexander did.Marcus in an ideal utopia there would be no war, but fundamentally human nature is basically bad,its greedy easily corupted and cares little for others its a basic fact.Today we learned catagorically,we went to war with Iraq for nothing, I really did think it was a just war to give Iraq freedom from tyrany yet look at the mess its in, They have freedom yet they want to blow each other to pieces,its madness, maybe the country needs saddam back.Whatever Alexander is was or people think,,, I would like to declare myself his No1 fan.Cheers Marcusregardskenny

Cheers JanJonas posted more than 10 hes aint a fan all due respect Jona.Anyway Jan wheres the fan club can I be the first official member?Before the flood of after film flunkies.Id like to state my claim here and now in pothos org the Home of Alexander discusion.regardskenny

Cheers JanJonas posted more than 10 hes aint a fan all due respect Jona.Anyway Jan wheres the fan club can I be the first official member?Before the flood of after film flunkies.Id like to state my claim here and now in pothos org the Home of Alexander discusion.regardskenny

Greetings Kenny,I tried writing to you privately but cannot get through, so will post here. First, your admiration for Alexander comes through in all your words; may you find the best of him within yourself and emulate those qualities.I know there are other "fan" sites but you might be disappointed, as they tend towards running after every myth, with no discernment, or worse. There are other discussion groups, such as Alexander Macedon and Karnak Eternal, but there, too, the humanity of Alexander, with all his virtues and flaws, are discussed.I do hope you will stay with Pothos- there are certainly people here who share your admiration for Alexander, and in them you have kindred souls. Of course, you could stick with Pothos and *still* create your own Yahoo discussion group and invite Pothosians to participate! Keep us posted..Regards,
SikanderPart of what makes a "hero" is the flaws- perfection wears after a while; the *humanity* of the hero is what makes him acepales after a

Hello Marcus,I promise to keep arguing with you whenever you get it wrong ;-)Best regardsHalil

Hello KennyI understand how you feel, but sadly, loving Alexander means sharing him too. Your sentiments echo those of long ago: we loved him first, we love him best! But the Macedonians had to learn to share him with the Persians and so it goes on down the ages. Maybe learning to share and play nicely with others is his gift to us - particularly the more quarrelsome amongst us!Cheers to one and all who keep Alexander's flame burning bright!Halil