Andrew Chugg - help!

[smittysmitty]

Hi Andrew,
Hopefully youGÇÖre still around and may be able to assist me, (not excluding anyone else that may help) with understanding a passage that comes from Plutarch. I noticed you mentioned in a previous post you were writing a manuscript on the links between Achilles and Alexander, so hopefully you can be of some assistance.PlutarchGÇÖs book on Pyrrhus king of Epirus commences his narrative with the usual account of the royal houseGÇÖs legendary origins and explains how the descendants of Achilles came to rule over the region. He then goes on to say; GÇÿThis was how it came about that Achilles was granted divine honours in Epirus and was known as Aspetus in the nomenclature of that region.GÇÖI was wondering if you had come across the name *Aspetus* else where in your research? I know Achilles as a child was known as Ligyron and that AchillesGÇÖ child Pyrrhus later came to be known as Neoptolemos but I donGÇÖt seem to be able to find any information on the name Aspetus; I must add, my research is far from exhaustive. Is this name unique to the people of Epirus as suggested by Plutarch or can its association be found else where? Plutarch continues on; GÇÿHowever, the later kings of this line sank into barbarism and as a result of the decline of their power and the insignificance of their lives, the dynasty lapsed into obscurity. It was Tharrhypas, so the historians say, who was the first of the successors to make himself famous by introducing Greek customs and letters and who imposed order on the life of his cities by promulgating humane laws. Tharrhypas was the father of Alcetas and his son Arrybas married Troas, who bore him AecidesGÇÖ.Unfortunately, Plutarch does not mention the names of the historians he uses, and as per usual, great care need be taken in accepting the passage as being accurate and true.
But given that there is some truth in what he states, and I may be wrong in saying this, but it certainly suggests to me, a period of Hellenisation occurred amongst the Molossians, and not more than a generation or two before Olympias gave birth to Alexander. Bearing this in mind, would then the name Achilles be simply a case of syncretism for Aspetus, and in a rather comical play on a much debated issue, was it indeed Aspetus that Alexander was attempting to emulate as opposed to Achilles?Sorry about the last line! But in all seriousness, does the narrative by Plutarch pose any questions about the veracity of such stories regarding Al

[smittysmitty]

part of my post :(Sorry about the last line! But in all seriousness, does the narrative by Plutarch pose any questions about the veracity of such stories regarding Alexander/Achilles and the Molossian royal house?
In appreciation to your, or any one else's response.cheers!

[Taphoi]

Aspetos in Greek means something like "unspeakably great". It may be an epithet or honorific to go with the divine honours, rather than a name.

[smittysmitty]

Hi Andrew,many thankks for your prompt response :)cheers!

[susan]

Robert Graves - "White Goddess " regards Achilles as an oracular hero, whose cult preceded the Trojan War.
He says :according to Apollonius, his original name Liguron ("wailing") was changed to Achilles by Cheiron. This is to suggest that the Achilles-cult came to Thessaly from Liguria. Homer punningly derives Achilles from achos ("distress"), but Apollodorus from a("not") and cheile ("lips"), a derivation which Frazer calls absurd; though "lipless" is quite a likely name for an oracular hero.
This is getting into the realm of mythical interpretation rather than history; Graves' theory is that many of the myths originated in matriarchal societies, and that later Greeks mis-interpreted them partly because they'd forgotten the original meaning, and partly because they weren't so keen on the matriarchal side. In this context, 'aspetos' would be a suitable epithet for such a hero.The only other reference that I found to Aspetus is"Astyoches and Ucalegon, dateless Pallachus, Aetoi.,
Aspetus who of the secrets divine knew all and was silent,
Ascanus, lliones, Alcesiphron, Orus, Aretes .... Hyrtamus fell, Adnietus was wounded, Channidas slaughtered;
Cirrhes died, though he faced not the blow while he hastened to shelter.
Itylus, bright and beautiful, went down to night and to Hades."from http://www.intyoga.freeservers.com/on_ilion.htm
Susan

[Link]

Hi SusanIt could be Asfetus/Asvetus - Ashining. Or related to the Italian Aspeta. It is hard to say without looking at the original script.Cheers!OLD MACEDONIANGLISHKoen iyas sam gnayan aza to shwo iyasWhen i's am knowan as to what i's vizden aza tia gorosali gramatik rekoi odviewed as the colossal gramatik reckons ofMakedonsi histori, verieve moy velot sestra,Makedon's history, believe my word sister,brator, keyull gnayall totalno onadto shwo iyas brother, you'll knowall totally on to what i's vidu aza chisto voda. viewed as chaste water.

[yiannis]

"+ü+¦+¦+Ñ+¦+»+¦". Aspetos is a Greek name or an epithet usually used to give emphasis on grandeur. Pela, what you reffer to as "Old Macedonian" is of course early Slavic. But you already knew that.
I'm not trying to debase you, but please make the distinction because otherwise people will be confused thinking that you refer to ancient Macedonian.Regards,
yiannis

[The Light 7000]

TO YIANNIS WITH RESPECT,YASSU FILE, ARE THE HELLENS SLAVS... OR...!?!IF THIS IN MAKEDONIAN MENAS: AHILE= AXILE= X=KS= A+KSILE/N, KSILA= STRONG,SILEN= POWER, SOMONE WHO IS STRONG, ONLY STRONG, IT IS NOT NAME FOR PARTICULAR PERSON, LIKE HERAKLE=HERO=, HE WAS HERO, NOT ONLY STRONG,...LINGUR= MEANS "SPETIAL" KIND OF PERSON WHO IS NOT CAPABLE OF DOING MANY THINGS ...AS+PE/BE+TOS= I+LIKE/TO LOOK LIKE/TO BE SIMULAR=LIKE HIM/IT, YES IN THE TEARMS OF GRANDIOUR,
..., SO WHAT IS MAKEDONIAN THAN, PLEASE EXPLAIN TO PEOPLE, "BUT IT MAYBE IS WISE NOT TO TOUCH THAT ISSUE AND FORGET IT...", LITTLE BIT POLITICS, LITLE BIT HYSTORY, LITLE BIT DIPLOMACY, LITLE BIT MONEY EVRY DAY..., GOOD LUCK TO YOU MY OLD DERAR FRIEND THE LIGHT 7000