History Channel's Decisive Battles

[beausefaless]

The discussion was about the Battle of Gaugemela said Janet fauble in a previous post, I guess that's what happens when you get old, you fall asleep a lot. Darling drink some coffee or take something for the program covered the Battle of Granicas and Issus even though they were vaguely discussed. The computer graphics were sub standard and poorly directed but better done on Gaugemela. They tried to cover Alexander from A to Z which was difficult to do in thirty minutes with twelve minutes of commercials. Pressfield was average, he appeared to loose himself but would recover. I do agree with Pressfields thoughts on the companion calvary and he mentioned the name Bucephalus. The gentlemen from Oxford were intriguing. They left Alexander's death open for whatever you want to think and I do like the last words of the program * Never again would one person conquer so much*. All in all it was better than last weeks show.Sorry Jan I just couldn't help myself, but that's me, what more can I say, but you'll get over it.Take care old Gal and I wish you all the best!

[amyntoros]

Now, now, Andrew. In all fairness to Jan, the show WAS promoted as the Battle of Gaugamela - there was no indication before it was shown that it was going to cover any other battles or parts of Alexander's life. That said, I pretty much agree with your assessment of the program, particularly the graphics - cutting edge video-game style technology it was not! And what was with those elephants?Best regards,Linda Ann

[beausefaless]

Greetings Linda Ann,I'm not sure what you meant by those elephants but...The skirmishers directly out in front of Darius included fifteen war elephants and fifty scythed chariots on either side of the elephants.During the charge at Granicus the glitter of Alexander's magnificent armor, the white plumes on helmet and his entourage made him a conspicuous target which they should have shown and respect to Cletus by mentioning his name you know the other soldier and commander, Alexander's body guard who anticipated the blow by Spithridates and severed the Persian's sword arm, saving Alexander's life. They could have easily shown that part of the battle, maybe they were too lazy or needed a G rating. I believe Alexander had bit more luck than strategy in this battle not taking away any of their bravery. Socrates had the bad luck of the draw that day.During the battle of Issus they could have easily showed the wedge formation and you don't need a G rating for that.Your right about Jan but she's a tough bird and she always ignores my petty thoughts. But shame on me! I need to paste a note on my laptop that says "No drinking"

[jan]

Hi Andrew and Linda, thanks for defending me. I appreciate that. I am going to take another look at it tonight as the first time was so virginal that I need a second time around. I was only quoting Steve Pressfield's news release and so with anticipation waited for what was a swift look at the Siwa Oasis more than anything else. The simulated graphics were for children, I guess, but it did get me in the mood for the movie now. I hope it lives up to its billing.Oh, Andrew, I love being called a tough old bird. I was just reading about Philip today in a book by Lewis V. Cummings at the book store. Have to bring it home one of these days. FYI, I actually enjoyed the chariots with those evil scythes rolling and watching the Macedonians outwit Darius's evil intentions. It was great fun!I will look for references to Issus and Granicus tonight as I intend to scrutinize it this time round.I AM a tough old bird. You know me all too well, I see. I am laughing so loud I am disturbing people now! Cheers!Jan

[amyntoros]

Ah, Andrew, but did you see fifteen elephants lined up in front of Darius? No, instead, there was a scene of a few soldiers fighting, with an elephant over here and an elephant over there - more or less hanging out in their own space and enjoying the warm weather! That's indicative of the problem I had with the animation; it often had nothing to do with the actual battle and in many cases was merely generic fighting scenes. And when they said Darius' name and the scene showed a Persian on a rearing horse, I just had to laugh.Maybe you can help me with something. They did at least show the phalanx running to one side to let the scythed chariots through, and I've always wondered how and why that actually worked. Was it actually one big division of the phalanx, like the parting of the red sea? Or was it soldiers separating into vertical rows and letting individual lines of chariots pass through? Watching the admittedly poor animation of the "red sea" version, I couldn't understand why (in the historical situation) the drivers of the chariots didn't just pull on their reigns, change direction slightly and plough towards the parted phalanx. If you saw soldiers parting a large distance to let you through, wouldn't you change directions to attack them? If it *was* the "red sea" version, the oncoming chariots would surely have had plenty of time to see what was happening - an army couldn't divide a significant distance at the last minute. Or was this the kind of situation where once a command was given, the Persian fighters would not (or could not) change it and make a decision of their own? Or am I more correct with my other version of events? Just curious.

[beausefaless]

Jan,Direct me to the *dunce stool*! Correction those gentlemen from Cambridge and Columbia. I'm the one that needs some coffee. Regards, Andrew

[ruthaki]

Hello Jan, you were right as the email I got from Steven P. also said "the battle of Gaugamela". Unfortunately I missed it but my friend was to tape it for me as i was on the bus coming down to the States for a little holiday. Looking forward to viewing the tape when I get back. Sounds interesting. ruthaki

[marcus]

Well, it sounds as if, poor graphics or not, the recreation of Gaugamela was better than the one the BBC showed a few months ago in the "Battle Commanders" series. In that one there were no elephants and ... no scythed chariots!How they could seriously consider it a recreation of Gaugamela I don't know. It was like doing a reconstruction of El Alamein without the tanks...All the bestMarcus

[beausefaless]

Greetings Linda Ann,Your right to say that some parts of the graphics didn't coincide with the battle. Think of that maneuver as a defensive tackle on the football field. The ball is hiked to the quarterback, the offensive guard and tackle block in different locations and let you through the gap but what you don't know, you think you got off the snap too quick for them to react, all you see is the QB moving backwards and you begin to think *he's mine* but what you don't see is the offensive guard on the other side of the center pulling behind the center and he plants you into the grass, you never saw him coming.The scythed chariots: their orders were to cut down the light infantry and phalanx and continue to attack the baggage camp that was protected by a reserve phalanx (QB) then to attack both of Alexander's oblique flanks from behind.Just before the battle starts Alexander in front of his companions are lined up in front of the light infantry and front phalanx across from Darius. Alexander starts the battle by riding to the right flank and the companions in order follows as this happens the oblique line starts to form as so does the gap with the archers and javelin throwers maneuvering within the oblique line facing towards the center. This was a huge battle on a huge field.Darius thought Alexander was going to use the same tactic his used at Issus so he reinforces his left flank. His plan was to maneuver parts of his forces to attack Alexander from behind. Even if they wanted the scythed chariots could not make turns or U turns without cutting each other apart and like you said the charioteers did not have a plan B.Does this make any sense?Best Regards, Andrew

[amyntoros]

It makes complete sense, Andrew - an excellent explanation! Many thanks for your time. (And what a great pity that the tv show failed miserably in their attempt to illustrate this, despite all their "experts" and animated effects.)Best regards,Linda Ann