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Hello All,Is there any possibility that Alexander and Barsine knew each other before his accession? Artabazus was her father, and a Persian dignitary to Philip's court, so it seems possible that they could have met earlier in life. Thoughts...Nicator

Nicator, this forum is short enough as it is without you also going all out posting questions etc, questions that push informative posts, many still in conversation, out of visibility too soon for my liking.You have 4 topics going in just 3 days. Please put all of your questions observations on this that and whatever in one post and the answers would be visible for you a lot longer for you.And that should go for John T as well.Also, read up in the sources about Alexander's childhood meeting with the Perziani Envoys. They spoke the same language and it wasn't Greek it started with M, everyone knew everyone from their old ballroom dancing days.

Link,I've combined topics in the past, and usually they go either unanswered or incomplete. Also, when a search is done later on a particular topic by an interested party, they will not get what they are looking for if the main body is cluttered with bits and pieces of unrelated info. As a side note, most of the posts on this forum lately, are about useless movie trivia...if they get pushed off, then the sooner the better. I have posted difficult topics which are of interest to and required input from the members of this forum. Isn't this the purpose of the forum? I guess if you don't like it or want to contribute, then don't...and hopefully, someone else will. Sometimes I may go a few weeks without a post, but when I need info...I need it now. If I am overtaxing the members of this forum, I'd like to hear about it. Sincerely Nick

Yes, they would have probably have known each other from their childhood - although I'm not sure how much freedom Barsine would have had to get to know Alexander, or any other boy of her own age or younger. She was probably a few years older than him. Also, her family connections certainly spoke Greek as they were connected to Greek-speaking cties in Asia - whatever the debates are about the ancient Macedonian language, we know from the records of Greek plays produced at court, diplomatic reports etc. that Greek would be well understood by the court members.Susan

Nick, If I didn't contribute then you would not have seen my reply to your request re O'peus and the location of Leibethron. You were desperate for that info and no one else answered you.I agree with your coment four posts below, yes you do babble on a bit, especially for a person who asks so many questions.

OUCH!(I guess I deserved that Link. Thanks for your contribution to that post and any others in the past...it really is appreciated. Sorry for snapping back at you. I've been known to let my emotions get the better of me on more than one occasion, and usually regret it later. I'll try to keep my posts to a minimum...yours, Nick

That was a valid question, Nick. I agree with Susan. I believe she spent some time in Macedonia with her father and she was evidently Greek-speaking. I read somewhere in my mounds of research that when she was Alexander's 'mistress' and got pregnant by him, her father had hoped Alexander would marry her. Instead he married Roxana, then Stateira and Barsine's son was deemed illegitimate and therefore not accepted as a legal heir.

Hi Susan,I don't think there is any doubt that Barsine would have been in Macedonia - after all, as Artabazus was in exile, he almost certainly took his family with him (we all know from more recent history what happens when you leave your family behind in those situations!).Whether Alexander knew Barsine I am less sure. For a start, I am less inclined to believe entirely in the story of the Persian ambassadors (who surely were *not* Artabazus and his crew, anyway). Also, because of the age difference, and probably issues surrounding the seclusion of women (Nick W will shed more light on Persian protocols, I'm sure), as well as Alexander off being taught at Mieza etc. I suspect that he didn't really 'know' Barsine, even if he did meet her on a small number of occasions.All the bestMarcus

I think that there would have probably been a formal meeting, in the same way that with royalty & royal courts in previous generations, there were formal meetings between the young people so that marriage or diplomatic arrangements could be considered. I don't know much about the protocol, but I would think that if you had marriageable daughters you would want to let potential suitors & suitors' families see them occasionally, just to see if they were worth marrying.Also as the Macedonians were the up-and-coming rulers of the area, it would be worthwhile for Artabazus to introduce his family to them once, as a mark of honour, and to try to build some personal relationships. But, I shouldn't think they met often and possibly didn't exchange more than a few words.Susan

Hi all,From my understanding of the situation, Artabazus' whole family followed him into exile, Barsine included. I'm not sure how closely Artabazus followed Persian convention in regards to cloistering his women. It's mentioned he has a Greek wife at the time, Memnon's sister, who ultimately bears him 21 children. There's no mention of Barsine and Pharnabazus' mother (she was Persian), so I'm not sure if he has multiple wives, or if Barsine's mother died before the exile. Barsine would not have been introduced to suitors, though. She was pledged to Mentor, Memnon's brother; one source says they were married prior to the exile, but I find that hard to swallow, since she would have been about 8 or 10 years old. Likely she was only promised to him if he could affect their recall. Artabazus and Memnon spent 10 years in Macedon -- plenty of time for Alexander and Barsine to have had numerous off-the-cuff meetings in addition to the 'official' ones. Whether they were romantic or not is a matter for speculation (and fictioneers).Scott

Hi Ruth,I don't think it's quite as simple as a child being declared illegitimate and therefore not a legal heir. Herakles might well have been declared not Alexander's heir, but that wouldn't have been due to his being born 'out of wedlock'. It's only been since the coming of Christianity (and even then not immediately) that 'illegitimacy' as such as had that sort of stigma attached to it.I don't disagree that Herakles might have been considered by some, or officially declared, not to have been the heir... just that this happened because his parents weren't married.All the bestMarcus

Hi Nicator,'If' Alexander had met Barsine in Macedonia would not one of our primary sources have made at least a passing comment? It would seem to have been ripe subject matter for Plutarch (one would assume that Alexander's childhood friends would have known- Ptolemy?) at least. I'm not sure what Curtius would have made of it!?Sorry to put a dampner on things but I just don't see them having met somehow, without this fact being made clear to us.Kit.

Hi Chris,I guess technically, if it's not in our sources, then it didn't happen. However, as with many things having to do with ATG, some speculative theorising comes into play. If Artabazus was in and around Pella for more than 10 years, it would seem highly unlikely that the two of them never met. Either way, you have a good point. Nick