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oh contra jan, i am not an admirer of hesp but of atg. as a matter of fact after reading mary renault i care more for the persian boy than any of atg lovers. however , atg thought enough of hesp to stay with him for many years even thru other lovers and wives. marcus i don't see where hesp did anything other (much) without atg approval. nina

nina wrote: marcus i don't see where hesp did anything other (much) without atg approval.

Hi Nina,

You see, this is where I start getting drawn into the Hephaestion argument ... but, for the moment at least, I'm not going to get involved!

ATB

marcus wrote:I'm not going to get involved!

Yes, yes. I said that once - and, with conviction! I flew off to the US for some forty days of road trip. Then, three years later, I married her and replicated the road trip.

Twenty two and a half years later, I'd like to replicate it again. Maybe I will.

See you in the Blue Bar Amyntoros. I'll be the one under Dorothy Parker's table.

Paralus wrote:See you in the Blue Bar Amyntoros. I'll be the one under Dorothy Parker's table.

I trust you will be recalling all those memorable sayings of Mrs Parker. My favourite is: "If all the girls attending [the Yale Prom] were laid end to end ... I wouldn't be at all surprised."

ATB

She was a rare wit Marcus.

"The cure for boredom is curiosity. There is no cure for curiosity."

"Another drink and I'll be under the host."

"I don't care what is written about me as long as it isn't true."

And a couple more relevant to this forum:

"This is not a novel to be tossed aside lightly. It should be thrown with great force."

Speaking of Manfredi's efforts methinks? And, for the "Tarnians" left among us:

"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks."

Paralus wrote:She was a rare wit Marcus.

"The cure for boredom is curiosity. There is no cure for curiosity."

"Another drink and I'll be under the host."

"I don't care what is written about me as long as it isn't true."

And a couple more relevant to this forum:

"This is not a novel to be tossed aside lightly. It should be thrown with great force."

Speaking of Manfredi's efforts methinks? And, for the "Tarnians" left among us:

"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks."

Boom tish!

I hadn't heard the "curiosity" one before, but the others I love.

ATB

GRRRR!Amyntoros, All fiction writers are whacko versions of Alexander, especially Mary Renault. And I would like to see more discussions of the novels of Alexander as well as the historical pieces of Alexander. Once you have read one historical piece, you have finally read them all, and nobodycan be toosure that they aren't just as much fiction as the works of Renault!

I always love to hear from ruthaki who has been absent for some time as I know she is deeply involved in writing a piece of fiction. There is room for authors here too, and all will have to be considered whacko since it is all imagination and pure fiction.

Nobody can top Weigall or McCrindle in historical writing, and I am happy that someone did point out that the prurient interest in sexuality is only a result of such writers as Ian Worthington and modern day biographers. Ian is the most notable of all on eroticism.

And I am convinced that Marcus is very much in sympathy with Olympias after all. Love to hear Marcus's opinions as apparently they are all in the archives now.

Hey! for warm and friendly for the authors and whackos! Dates like 332 and 338 are never going to be altered in time we hope, no more than my personal social security card, are they?

jan wrote: GRRRR!Amyntoros, All fiction writers are whacko versions of Alexander, especially Mary Renault. And I would like to see more discussions of the novels of Alexander as well as the historical pieces of Alexander.

Ah, my dear, if you want to see more discussions of Alexander novels then perhaps you should start a thread! Such discussions are certainly not excluded from the forum. However, there is no guarantee that there will be a great number of responses - as I said before, you can't force members to post if they are not interested. On the other hand, you won't know how many share your interest unless you try. I would probably respond, however there aren't that many novels that I actually like, although the Persian Boy does happen to be one of them!

Once you have read one historical piece, you have finally read them all, and nobodycan be toosure that they aren't just as much fiction as the works of Renault!

But this is your opinion only, and many would disagree. And - if you think about it - you are saying that if a person has read only one historical book then he knows all there is to know about Alexander! Hmm, I wouldn't like to put that to the test . . . As for whether the histories are mostly fictional; well, you can view them how you want. Those of us who don't feel that way are more than happy to discuss historical matters here.

Best regards,

Hello,

The fiction novel, I think, provides us with an interesting way of immersing ourselves for a little while, in the world that Alexander lived in-. depending on how good your imagination is.

I think that the finest novel or magnum opus, on Alexander, is yet to be written- however, Renault's work must rank up there as about the best we have to date, as much for her historicity as for her art with the written word. She did surely make her occasional mistakes as is to be expected but her work far exceeds them- while reading you can almost feel the command she has of the sources.

Well, that is my tuppence.

Best regards,
Dean

jan wrote:And I am convinced that Marcus is very much in sympathy with Olympias after all. Love to hear Marcus's opinions as apparently they are all in the archives now.

Aha! Well, Jan, it depends on what you mean by "in sympathy" ... I'm not so sure. Is this because I'm a bit "anti-"Hephaestion and therefore perhaps share Olympias' reported misgivings about him?

Olympias is one about whom I definitely have not made up my mind. Although, now I carry an image of Angelina Jolie as Olympias, I think I would approve of whatever she did ...

ATB

I love it that you think of Olympias as Angelina Jolie now. I managed to see Angelina in person at the mall one day, and can never see her as anything but an angel! She had her son with her and together they were adorable! They held their ice creams up for me to see, in synchronization yet to boot! Lisa Daniels of MSNBC is my idea of who Olympias may have looked like, and I just love her looks! Beautiful woman!

On 22 Jul 2006 Marcus wrote:

Olympias is one about whom I definitely have not made up my mind.

Well, I think none of us has as yet, but now a book can come to assistance. It is "Olympias Mother of Alexander the Great" by Elizabeth Carney, 240 sound pages dedicated to this formidable woman, who, by the way, had a very bad press in antiquity. I'm looking forward to ordering it (let alone to reading it), but I don't want it to arrive when I am away on holiday. So, if somebody is going to read it shortly, please let us know his (or her) impressions. Best wishes Azara

Hello Azara! So nice to see you back on Pothos.

Is the book definitely in stock in Italy? I am having the most difficult time purchasing it here in America. I preordered the paperback version on Amazon back in February when it had a publication date of April. April passed and a new publication date was given of sometime in June. After June came and went the Amazon site simply read GÇ£not currently available.GÇ¥ IGÇÖve written to Amazon three times about my preorder and they keep apologizing and telling me theyGÇÖve given my account a credit of a couple of dollars (which never seems to materialize, but thatGÇÖs of no concern). Now I see that Amazon is showing a new publication date of September 30th! I donGÇÖt know if IGÇÖm ever going to see this book.

This weekend I checked the publisherGÇÖs website and they are listing the paperback as available. Arrrgh! I wrote and told them about the publication date listed on Amazon and asked if they really had copies of the book in stock. Am waiting to hear on this.

Does anyone, anywhere, actually own a copy of this book?

Best regards,

Oooh, Amyntoros, what a disappointment!:( I was looking forward to shooting an order at Amazon and now the publication of the book turns out to be put off! In Italy it was listed in the on-line catalogue of a university bookshop (unless I have dreamt it), but IGÇÖve just checked and it isnGÇÖt there any longer. The plot thickens. Best regards
Azara

. . . and thickens some more! As of Monday, Amazon changed the publication date to July 24th! Still no sign of a shipment to ME, though - so I called them. This time they say they hadn't received enough books to fill their orders so they sent them out on a "first come, first served" basis. I pre-ordered back in March but apparently there were others who ordered first. Anyway, supposedly the book will be shipped to me on August 7th, and as they finally gave me the promised credits I left my order with them.

The publishers, however, do have the book currently available. It was extremely difficult to locate on their site, but this link to Routledge should work. This is the English pricing, but the homepage has a link to America also. Unfortunately, I've no idea about the books availability in Italy.

Best regards,