Hannibal is on his way.

[marcus]

"George Lucas turning "Alexander" ("use the arete Alex..")into a mystical good versus evil adventure; Steven Spielberg creating an ancient "feel good" adult fairy-tale with a happier endingGǪ..The Brotherhood of Man ..."Oh Gawd, what a thought. As I was reading your post, and particularly the quoted paragraph above, I was thinking - as it happens I enjoyed the film, and thought it was much better than it was given credit for; it would also be true to say that, had the Director's Cut been released in the theatres I think it would have been much better received by the critics. Anyway, Alexander was a controversial figure; he is still a controversial figure; Stone is a mightily controversial director; he managed to make a massively controversial film ... sounds perfect to me! :-)ATBMarcus

[marcus]

"George Lucas turning "Alexander" ("use the arete Alex..")into a mystical good versus evil adventure; Steven Spielberg creating an ancient "feel good" adult fairy-tale with a happier endingGǪ..The Brotherhood of Man ..."Oh Gawd, what a thought. As I was reading your post, and particularly the quoted paragraph above, I was thinking - as it happens I enjoyed the film, and thought it was much better than it was given credit for; it would also be true to say that, had the Director's Cut been released in the theatres I think it would have been much better received by the critics. Anyway, Alexander was a controversial figure; he is still a controversial figure; Stone is a mightily controversial director; he managed to make a massively controversial film ... sounds perfect to me! :-)ATBMarcus

[kenny]

Hail Marcus Michael Nickall your remarks were spot on with the movie. Id like to take issue with Artistic Licence.Its been said that the Burton Movie was all over the place with discrepencies I saw 3 Obvious ones.1 Memnon Been Killed at Granicus.2 Roxane been in Darius Tent and the same girl Been Called Darius Daughter. I couldnt see many others.Stones movie Is full. I counted 5 in the Hydaspes Alone.1 In a Forrest2 Never was a phalanx in jepeordy.3 I cant Recall the Macedonians ever retreating let alone at Hydaspes.4 The Troops Got to the Beas before Hydaspes.And finally The arrow and The Horse Been butchered.Stone claims to have tried to be true to the story but any lay viewer watching this film would be lost.As you all say too short a movie and tried to cram everything in and it ended up looking a mess.And as one of you said. If only 3 hours why waste valuable time with Fantasist Caves. Alexander acting like a lion on his wedding night and his mother ranting like some crazy witch.Side by side the Burton movie is better. Face it stone had millions off dollars special effects etc and the only thing that stood out was Gaugamella .Even the statues looked chalky and cheap.kenny

[kenny]

Hail Marcus Michael Nickall your remarks were spot on with the movie. Id like to take issue with Artistic Licence.Its been said that the Burton Movie was all over the place with discrepencies I saw 3 Obvious ones.1 Memnon Been Killed at Granicus.2 Roxane been in Darius Tent and the same girl Been Called Darius Daughter. I couldnt see many others.Stones movie Is full. I counted 5 in the Hydaspes Alone.1 In a Forrest2 Never was a phalanx in jepeordy.3 I cant Recall the Macedonians ever retreating let alone at Hydaspes.4 The Troops Got to the Beas before Hydaspes.And finally The arrow and The Horse Been butchered.Stone claims to have tried to be true to the story but any lay viewer watching this film would be lost.As you all say too short a movie and tried to cram everything in and it ended up looking a mess.And as one of you said. If only 3 hours why waste valuable time with Fantasist Caves. Alexander acting like a lion on his wedding night and his mother ranting like some crazy witch.Side by side the Burton movie is better. Face it stone had millions off dollars special effects etc and the only thing that stood out was Gaugamella .Even the statues looked chalky and cheap.kenny

[kenny]

Jan I cant get through. I tried Yahoo at jan neptune@yahoo.com.Just comes back.Kenny

[kenny]

Jan I cant get through. I tried Yahoo at jan neptune@yahoo.com.Just comes back.Kenny

[Paralus]

G'day Kenny! In fact, Merry Christmas!Mate, movies are movies GÇô not history. Some advice I should take. Would - if I could.You see, I can't abide the celluloiding (Bill Gates doesn't know that word GÇô probably 'cuase I invented it) of history. So I shouldn't really watch "historically based films" because invariably, they never agree with my view! That said:"Never was a phalanx in jepeordyGǪ"Absolutely there was. One needs to read between lines GÇô particularly when it comes to Jhelum (Hydaspes) and Arrian (5:17):"The elephant drivers forced their beasts to meet the opposing cavalry, while the Macedonian infantry, in its turn, advanced against them, shooting down the drivers, and pouring in a hail of missilesGǪ"Sounds right so far eh? But wait, in typical Arrian understatement:"It was an odd bit of work GÇô quite unlike any previous battle; the monster elephants plunged this way and that among the lines of the infantry, dealing destruction in the solid mass of the phalanx, while the Indian horsemen, seeing the infantry at one and other's throats, wheeled to the assaultGǪ" Now, the key phrases here are "dealing destruction" and "infantry at one and other's throats". The Macedonian phalanx was not only under severe pressure for the first time in years (and by this I mean they thought of defeat and turning tail), it was having "destruction" wrought amongst its ranks. And I am certain that at some stage it might well have gone "backwards". When a Macedonian phalanx has "destruction" wrought amongst it, that will happen GÇô ask Antigonus Monophthalmos, or Phillip V. This though, was commanded by a cavalry commander and general par excellence. Never doubt though, that Alexander needed everything to rally his flagging phalanx Kenny, and to me it was the part of Stone's film that summed up the man: the "ar+¬te", the glory seeker, the general and the arse-hole who, at fifty (had he lived), would deny to his sons everything yet to be attained. This last because GÇô like Parmenio and others GÇô he would have eliminated them eventually.

[Paralus]

G'day Kenny! In fact, Merry Christmas!Mate, movies are movies GÇô not history. Some advice I should take. Would - if I could.You see, I can't abide the celluloiding (Bill Gates doesn't know that word GÇô probably 'cuase I invented it) of history. So I shouldn't really watch "historically based films" because invariably, they never agree with my view! That said:"Never was a phalanx in jepeordyGǪ"Absolutely there was. One needs to read between lines GÇô particularly when it comes to Jhelum (Hydaspes) and Arrian (5:17):"The elephant drivers forced their beasts to meet the opposing cavalry, while the Macedonian infantry, in its turn, advanced against them, shooting down the drivers, and pouring in a hail of missilesGǪ"Sounds right so far eh? But wait, in typical Arrian understatement:"It was an odd bit of work GÇô quite unlike any previous battle; the monster elephants plunged this way and that among the lines of the infantry, dealing destruction in the solid mass of the phalanx, while the Indian horsemen, seeing the infantry at one and other's throats, wheeled to the assaultGǪ" Now, the key phrases here are "dealing destruction" and "infantry at one and other's throats". The Macedonian phalanx was not only under severe pressure for the first time in years (and by this I mean they thought of defeat and turning tail), it was having "destruction" wrought amongst its ranks. And I am certain that at some stage it might well have gone "backwards". When a Macedonian phalanx has "destruction" wrought amongst it, that will happen GÇô ask Antigonus Monophthalmos, or Phillip V. This though, was commanded by a cavalry commander and general par excellence. Never doubt though, that Alexander needed everything to rally his flagging phalanx Kenny, and to me it was the part of Stone's film that summed up the man: the "ar+¬te", the glory seeker, the general and the arse-hole who, at fifty (had he lived), would deny to his sons everything yet to be attained. This last because GÇô like Parmenio and others GÇô he would have eliminated them eventually.

[Paralus]

G'day again Kenny. Or should I say, good 04:10am Sydney time.To slightly correct my previous post (you need to excuse Christmas parties; then again, maybe not, typing's difficult) with respect to "dealing destruction", Arrian's qualifier "in the solid mass" is absolutely critical. I meant to make that the point of the Antigonus GÇô Philip V reference. Thinking about it now, Pyrrhus comes to mind as someone who learned (quickly) the results of destruction wrought amongst a Macedonian phalanx GÇô and someone not adaptive enough to take on mobile "cohorts". (Mind you there were many Roman soldiers who did not fancy facing the Macedonian "hedgehog").The point being that it wasn't just the front ranks that were being cut to pieces by Porus' elephants and infantry, for the first (?) time it was THE phalanx. THE cornerstone of the army was being dealt "destruction" amidst its "solid mass".Doesn't take much to work out that the Macedonians were dealt a serious blow in taking this battlefield. One they refused to advance upon. A blow they eventually mutinied about.They went backwards before eventually taking the field. Take it as read.

[Paralus]

G'day again Kenny. Or should I say, good 04:10am Sydney time.To slightly correct my previous post (you need to excuse Christmas parties; then again, maybe not, typing's difficult) with respect to "dealing destruction", Arrian's qualifier "in the solid mass" is absolutely critical. I meant to make that the point of the Antigonus GÇô Philip V reference. Thinking about it now, Pyrrhus comes to mind as someone who learned (quickly) the results of destruction wrought amongst a Macedonian phalanx GÇô and someone not adaptive enough to take on mobile "cohorts". (Mind you there were many Roman soldiers who did not fancy facing the Macedonian "hedgehog").The point being that it wasn't just the front ranks that were being cut to pieces by Porus' elephants and infantry, for the first (?) time it was THE phalanx. THE cornerstone of the army was being dealt "destruction" amidst its "solid mass".Doesn't take much to work out that the Macedonians were dealt a serious blow in taking this battlefield. One they refused to advance upon. A blow they eventually mutinied about.They went backwards before eventually taking the field. Take it as read.

[Nicator]

To use your euphimistic greeting...G'day Paralus,This portion of the battle is probably the cornerstone achievement of my book, certainly, it is the set piece that I am the most proud of. To give it the spotlight that it deserves it had to be good, and I've probably spent more time making it that way than any other set piece in the entire book. Here's a couplet from memory, (may have changed, but you get the point)..."Crashing through the lines, then left and right wheeling""Everywhere the massive beasts were death dealing"later Nicator

[Nicator]

To use your euphimistic greeting...G'day Paralus,This portion of the battle is probably the cornerstone achievement of my book, certainly, it is the set piece that I am the most proud of. To give it the spotlight that it deserves it had to be good, and I've probably spent more time making it that way than any other set piece in the entire book. Here's a couplet from memory, (may have changed, but you get the point)..."Crashing through the lines, then left and right wheeling""Everywhere the massive beasts were death dealing"later Nicator

[jan]

HI Kenny, I sent you a post from yahoo. You have to have the little underline between jan and neptune. jan_neptune@yahoo.comHOpe you got my post that I sent to Mega at yahoo.co.uk. It was about ramsey and fox t.v.I will try again.I still want to see your picture. Thankx Jan

[jan]

HI Kenny, I sent you a post from yahoo. You have to have the little underline between jan and neptune. jan_neptune@yahoo.comHOpe you got my post that I sent to Mega at yahoo.co.uk. It was about ramsey and fox t.v.I will try again.I still want to see your picture. Thankx Jan

[jan]

Boy, Kenny, you are right about the statues. I could not agree more, and the cave drawings were simply awful! I did notice one thing in the Burton movie early on that really got me that reminded me of Daniel of France2 fame when he had a scene in the Louvre exactly like this scene in the Burton movie. A man's buttocks naked and bare, and I got the idea right now, but it made me flashback to Daniel. thanks for the memories...there is a connection I am positive now.