Whats wrong with been a fan.

[jona]

Dear AndrewYou wrote:'When you say,"after the fall of Tyre, the homeland was safe and there was no need to continue the war," I couldn't disagree with you more. I guaranty Darius would have sooner or probably later got his revenge.'I agree that this is a possibility, but I am not convinced by the parallel with Rome. The point is that Persian laws were unalterable. If the great king had given his word, he could not come back upon it and it simply had to be done, even if he came to regret it. There is evidence of this in various sources:Avestan Persian (Mihr Yasht: http://www.avesta.org/ka/yt10sbe.htm ),Achaemenid Persian (Darius's vehement remarks about "followers of the Lie" in the Behistun inscription and the lower Naqsh-e Rustam inscription http://www.livius.org/be-bm/behistun/behistun01.html and http://www.livius.org/da-dd/darius/dari ... html#Lower ).Biblical, Daniel 6.8: "Now, O king, establish the decree, and sign the writing, that it not be changed, according to the law of the Medes and Persians, which doesn't alter."Greek: Herodotus 9.109, the story of Amestris's revenge.So, I think that Darius and his successors would have been forced to accept the treaty. Kings were no liars. It is interesting to compare the Peace of Callias in c.450. If this treaty ever existed is debatable, but there certainly was an understanding between Athens and Persia that they would not interfere in each others empires. Persia kept its promise until Athens started to support Pissuthnes' son Amorges (414?). It was only then that Darius II Nothus started to pay Sparta.Jona

[marcus]

Thanks, Halil :-)Right back at yer!:-)Marcus

[iskander-32]

S
Thanks for your words and advice, maybe I am a little biased with my admiration for Alexander maybe to the extent of hero worship.I wont apologise for that and even though ill listen to interesting debate, I will stand up and talk in defence of Alexander been into Alexander like I am is something I cant understand nor explain,its Personal itl like been a christian or In love its something I cant explain nor will i try.Alexander was many things to many people, some people say war monger, maniac ,power hungry many labels. It happens all the time once people famous people die the dirt the shock factor people invent all types of stuff.Im not interested in Alexander been bi sexual, nor do I want to see it, all i know is that here was a man who was very special, who attained and achieved beyond himself.Thanks to all the people in the forum for the support and interest your opinions and knowledge are to be commended but to me Alexander ius much more and I will do anything to defend his memory or reputation.regardskenny

[iskander-32]

S
Thanks for your words and advice, maybe I am a little biased with my admiration for Alexander maybe to the extent of hero worship.I wont apologise for that and even though ill listen to interesting debate, I will stand up and talk in defence of Alexander been into Alexander like I am is something I cant understand nor explain,its Personal itl like been a christian or In love its something I cant explain nor will i try.Alexander was many things to many people, some people say war monger, maniac ,power hungry many labels. It happens all the time once people famous people die the dirt the shock factor people invent all types of stuff.Im not interested in Alexander been bi sexual, nor do I want to see it, all i know is that here was a man who was very special, who attained and achieved beyond himself.Thanks to all the people in the forum for the support and interest your opinions and knowledge are to be commended but to me Alexander ius much more and I will do anything to defend his memory or reputation.regardskenny

[iskander-32]

S
Thanks for your words and advice, maybe I am a little biased with my admiration for Alexander maybe to the extent of hero worship.I wont apologise for that and even though ill listen to interesting debate, I will stand up and talk in defence of Alexander been into Alexander like I am is something I cant understand nor explain,its Personal itl like been a christian or In love its something I cant explain nor will i try.Alexander was many things to many people, some people say war monger, maniac ,power hungry many labels. It happens all the time once people famous people die the dirt the shock factor people invent all types of stuff.Im not interested in Alexander been bi sexual, nor do I want to see it, all i know is that here was a man who was very special, who attained and achieved beyond himself.Thanks to all the people in the forum for the support and interest your opinions and knowledge are to be commended but to me Alexander ius much more and I will do anything to defend his memory or reputation.regardskenny

[Ariadne]

Hello everyone ! this is a message I've posted yet in the forum, here it is again, because I think it's about near the same topic, and i'm lazy...
The beggining was : "We'll never really know Alexander (or any other past character or event), we only know the Alexander ancient and modern writers wrote about. They gave him the greatest occidental values : charisma, force, will, youth, beauty, culture, and at least this occidental will to give freedom and civilisation to these poor, poor, barbarian peoples (doesn't remind something to you ?)"..."He has a special attraction, more and differently than Napoleon, or Carolus Magnus,and all the others...Not just "be a great warrior and king, and rule the world ", but also "Go to the places nobody went before you (I've forgotten this in my first post), be goodlooking, passionated and dangerous, and die young, that's the way to be an eternal hero !"These values belong also to a long list of characters in art and history, and I am far to know them all(the great french poet Arthur Rimbaud is part of them) , some have accomplished their will, some others no...This non-accomplishment feeling is present with Alexander to : we don't know what he would have done if he went further, and if he had time to govern his empire. These men have a special attract for many people,in fact you can say it with one word : romanticism... Here were're all looking for romanticism, aren't we ? (Maybe except for the students who are i nthis forum because they work about the period... I did an university work about ancient Greece, but not on Alexander ! )The problem is in the case of Alexander I'm ashame of finding romanticism in war, violence and will of domination...In an other point of view, the novelist Milan Kundera says that we always give great virtues to the past, because of nostalgy about what will not happen anymore. He tells his own experience, looking at photographs of the 2th World War, and being nostalgic, because this horrible period was also time of his childwood... He speaks about the myth of eternal return : if passed wars and conquest would happen in the future again and again, "there will be no remission to their stupidity", we wouldn't admire people like Alexander, and on the contrary fear and hate them. But the past won't come back, and Alexander is such a magnificent hero... Kundera says that with other exemples, and these are beautifull pages I'm not able unfortunatly to translate in english..."

[S]

> Thanks for your words and advice, maybe I am a little biased with my admiration for Alexander Thanks for your words and advice, maybe I am a little biased with my admiration for Alexander Thanks for your words and advice, maybe I am a little biased with my admiration for Alexander There is nothing wrong with that, Kenny, everyone needs someone to admire, and there are good things about Alexander, especially if you look for the best part of him and reach for a similar thing within yourself.> I will stand up and talk in defence of Alexander I will stand up and talk in defence of Alexander I will stand up and talk in defence of AlexanderThat's part of admiring someone- when they are being discussed, to speak out for what they did right. But even heroes falter, and I hope you can accept *that* part of Alexander, too. He made mistakes- that does not mean a person has to stop admiring him, or even loving him.. just like loving your son means you don't stop caring when he makes a mistake. > its something I cant explain nor will i try. its something I cant explain nor will i try. its something I cant explain nor will i try.I understand.. no need for you to try to explain.. that intensity of affection for Alexander is one of the things that pulled a lot of men to him >Alexander was many things to many people,Alexander was many things to many people,Alexander was many things to many people,Alexander *was* many things to many people; today, he is still what each person needs him to be. Sometimes they get it right, sometimes they don't. Some need him to be a despot, others need him to be a god. Then, as now, that was part of the nagic- that each person saw what they needed to see, and took from him what they needed.. >Im not interested in Alexander been bi sexual, nor do I want to see itIm not interested in Alexander been bi sexual, nor do I want to see itIm not interested in Alexander been bi sexual, nor do I want to see itI realize you are not comfortable with the thought, but the reality is that he lived in a homoerotic warrior culture (without the influence of monotheistic disapproval of sex in general); his own feelings were not as rigid as people insist they be today. That does not detract from who he was; no matter who he may have bedded with, or loved, he was still himself. More importantly, of his own accord he usually chose self-control over self-indulgence when it came to sex. A man is more than his sexual nature; sexual orientation of any form does not define the person, sexual orientation is fluid: it is each society that decides what will or will not be "acceptable" (which is why it varies so much). That said, you do not have to focus on the sexual aspect of Alexander to admire him. Surely, you admire the core personality more than the exterior?As to seeing sexual behaviors on screen, I tend to agree, though I feel that way about *any* sexual behaviours. Voyeurism does not appeal to me (though I recognize others will not see the scenes in the same way).

> here was a man who was very special,

[S]

As to seeing sexual behaviors on screen, I tend to agree, though I feel that way about *any* sexual behaviours. Voyeurism does not appeal to me (though I recognize others will not see the scenes in the same way).

> here was a man who was very special, who attained and achieved beyond himself. here was a man who was very special, who attained and achieved beyond himself. here was a man who was very special, who attained and achieved beyond himself.There is probably more to it than that, though. After all, a great many men and women throughout history have achieved "beyond themselves", achieved the seemingly impossible, achieved greatness.. and I suppose each has his or her own coterie of admirers.> to me Alexander ius much more and I will do anything to defend his memory or reputation. to me Alexander ius much more and I will do anything to defend his memory or reputation. to me Alexander ius much more and I will do anything to defend his memory or reputation.To some extent, Alexander holds a fascination for each person who stays for any length of time on this Forum. So whether they appear to be detractors or admirers, all are "fans". Regards,
Sikander

[S]

Greetings Ariadne, > we only know the Alexander ancient and modern writers wrote about. we only know the Alexander ancient and modern writers wrote about. we only know the Alexander ancient and modern writers wrote about.Good post. This is similar to something I have consistently said- that history is a best guess based on the assumed or known facts as we can surmise them. >They gave him the greatest occidental values : charisma, force, will, youth, beauty, culture, and at least this occidental will to give freedom and civilisation to these poor, poor, barbarian peoples (doesn't remind something to you ?)"They gave him the greatest occidental values : charisma, force, will, youth, beauty, culture, and at least this occidental will to give freedom and civilisation to these poor, poor, barbarian peoples (doesn't remind something to you ?)"They gave him the greatest occidental values : charisma, force, will, youth, beauty, culture, and at least this occidental will to give freedom and civilisation to these poor, poor, barbarian peoples (doesn't remind something to you ?)"(Laughing) Yes, but we won't go into that here!>These values belong also to a long list of characters in art and historyThese values belong also to a long list of characters in art and historyThese values belong also to a long list of characters in art and historyTrue.. of course, that does not make them less appealing to the person who chooses a particular hero to admire or imitate>finding romanticism in war, violence and will of domination...finding romanticism in war, violence and will of domination...finding romanticism in war, violence and will of domination..."No man is more alive than when he faces his own death"> novelist Kundera says that we always give great virtues to the past novelist Kundera says that we always give great virtues to the past novelist Kundera says that we always give great virtues to the pastNostalgia for what we *felt* at that time. Feelings are powerful motivators. Much depends on what a person seeks. If life feels unsafe or threatening, people tend to reach for childhood security, like US President Reagan trying to recapture his childhood world when "everyone knew their place", trying to turn back the clock; if life seems banal or pointless, we reach for a time when life was exciting, each moment could be the last- thus the nostalgia for periods of war. The sense of being involved in something *important*, beyond ourselves.. > we wouldn't admire people like Alexander, and on the contrary fear and hate them. we wouldn't admire people like Alexander, and on the contrary fear and hate them. we wouldn't admire people like Alexander, and on the contrary fear and hate them.If Alexander was alive today, doing exactly what he did then, yes, most people would. But power seduces; many would be attracted to him *because* he was doing what he did... sadly, human nature being what it is, history tends to repeat.Regards,
Sikander

[beausefaless]

Greetings Jona,I guess Bessus was immune to any written laws of allegiance. What I'm saying is, great kings and certain satraps (modern politicians?) make up the rules as they go along, interpolation of the same existing laws. Alexander had no intention of leaving Asia and he would have been a thorn or maybe I should say a fly in the great kings chardonnay. I can't go with you on this subject for I have too many un-answered questions to your sources. But nice try.Take care,Andrew

[THE LIGHT 7000]

Hi,...One to have true "vision" of Alexander "vision" and achivments, has to have more than simple imagination, because His goal and achivments are far beyond ordinary person immagination from today, not to mention from "yesterday". ...Maybe Alexander did not want to do somthing but it was "necessarry" than, talking from "than" perspective of view... Maybe today He would act differentlly in "conquering" and uniting this world... So maybe, from this perspective, Alexander is more closer to you than you can immagine... The world is changing, we are changing, collective "consciousness" is changing, slowly, let say "invisibbly" but is changing, therefore this world is facing changes..., maybe that is the way Alexander would prefer, .... one can see things within 100 metres, one maybe 1 km., one 1000 light years..., time and space together... So, aproaching this topic needs holographic aproach, because of it's complexity...
and that will give you simplicity of ordinary but united world as universal brotherhood of man...The Light 7000